| Khome | Sunday, October 8, 2017 - 08:03 pm 
Help me out with this.. has anyone else noticed that corps within enterprises are starting to help themselves to the enterprise's cash? Even after lowering the cash amount for all of my corps to 45B (which was always an acceptable amount), the next time would I log on, my enterprise is in the negative by the trillions. The reason being, all of it's cash is being siphoned into each corp, raising their cash amounts that were not typical in the past. I then manually reduce the amounts of each corp to 45B, however this repeats itself daily. This is new. Is this a glitch or was there a change I was not made aware of?
Thnx |
| Johanas Bilderberg | Sunday, October 8, 2017 - 11:32 pm
Just noticed it myself. I keep my corps at 41B which has been plenty to stay in the black.
Now each time I log on my CEO has lost 26T to the corps. |
| Johanas Bilderberg | Sunday, October 8, 2017 - 11:36 pm
Double post. |
| Khome | Monday, October 9, 2017 - 05:46 pm
triple |
| Andy | Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 11:05 am
Can you give me a name of an enterprise?
to what level is the cash increased.
Is it increased in all corporations to the same level?
We did not change anything at all for a very long time. |
| Johanas Bilderberg | Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 12:38 pm
The Bilderberg Group on LU.
On log in cash available is 24.093 trillion. Cash is reduced in all corps to 41B manually.
Enterprise cash available is 51.451 trillion.
I will log off and in again to check spread but usually it isn't equal. |
| Johanas Bilderberg | Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 12:44 pm
It isn't instantaneous. I double checked my automation parameters and nothing has changed on my end. |
| Johanas Bilderberg | Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 12:48 am
Ok Andy.
Logged in and cash had moved from enterprise to corps.
It is random ,some corps are 81B, some are 62, and several are only 45B.
I left it as is so perhaps you can make some sense of things.
The Bilderberg Group on LU. |
| SuperSoldierRCP | Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 03:10 am
This is an issue for state corps as well. I have corps adding huge amounts at random. They have no debt, making a profit, and sitting on 50B or so in cash, then all of a sudden they inject themselves with 30B for no reason.
Andy, You really might want to double check this issue. If it is an issue it would warrant immediate action as it could bankrupt people or cause massive cash issues.
https://sim05.simcountry.com/cgi-bin/cgi2nova?SN_ADDRESS=wwwCountry&SN_METHOD=w3graph&miTable=corphist&miKey=3464215&miColumn=vCorpCash
https://sim05.simcountry.com/cgi-bin/cgi2nova?SN_ADDRESS=wwwCountry&SN_METHOD=w3graph&miTable=corphist&miKey=3464216&miColumn=vCorpCash |
| Andy | Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 01:38 pm
I thought that you observed blanket transfer into all corporations. This should not happen.
Both countries and enterprise try to keep their corporations afloat.
When there is low cash, they move money in (not into any public corporations, only fully owned ones).
The amount depends on the need for cash and profitable corporations will probably not need any.
Many times it happens when you purchase a lot of raw materials.
The feature is very old and has not changed in years.
It was created when players complained about bankrupted corporations, that could survive but needed a lot of cash to purchase raw materials for many months.
The number of bankruptcies decreased.
Corporations can bankrupt despite the feature, if there are sudden changes in cash and large negative cash. They can bankrupt before any transfer takes place.
The same happens in state corporations.
I general, we advise to keep up to 80B in the corporation and never touch it.
If it goes higher, there is a function on the cash page of corporations that allows you to set the cash level at some value for all corporations at once.
I do this once in a while and no corporations bankrupt.
If you have cargo shuttle building corporations you need to do so frequently as otherwise, they will all bankrupt.
(the problem is becoming smaller as the price of these products declined a lot). |
| Jauterson001 | Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 02:00 pm
That does make sense now. The corporations are getting transfers when their cash levels reach 40-45B. I didn't think that much cash was really needed in the corporation. I was thinking when the levels started getting closer to 20-25B in a corporation, then it would get a automatic transfer.
I will just keep transferring the cash back to my CEO. The only thing that is bugging me is that if I don't have much cash on hand in my CEO, then I have to take loans to cover the transfers. You shouldn't be penalized for having lower cash levels in your corporations. |
| Khome | Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 03:41 pm
Exactly, this is happening to enterprises, not so much countries. And the change was sudden, like about over a week ago. More than one is reporting this, at the same time. No coincidence. My enterprises corps are taking funds out of my enterprises themselves and raising it to levels that it never had before. If there was a change, we need to know. |
| Andy | Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 09:30 pm
We did not change anything on enterprises cash for a very long time.
I will check however.
Two weeks ago, I have increased the max loans corporations can take before they bankrupt. It was intended to reduce the chance for an unnecessary bankruptcy.
I increased the limit by 20B. also the point where you get a warning was pushed back a bit.
I do not see how changing the max debt can influence cash transfers into corporations but I will look into it. |
| Johanas Bilderberg | Friday, October 13, 2017 - 12:28 am
It is something recent. I manually change cash levels every few days and keep corps at 41B which is sufficient to avoid any loans.
The issue is having over 800 corporations all trying to siphon off cash at once. |
| SuperSoldierRCP | Friday, October 13, 2017 - 01:07 am
Andy,
Their is an issue going on somewhere. In my nation of Melichor on LU, I haven't had any problems until just of late. This game year ALONE my country has transferred "-893,000.00M SC$".
I would encourage you to investigate my nation. I haven't changed anything major and as a country we cannot withdraw income from state corps, so it makes little to no sense why a corporation with a steady income flow all of a sudden needs 10's of billions injected into it.
The only thing I can think of is you said there was a change recently with corporation profitability. Could it by accident have effected? |
| Sheepman RGB | Friday, October 13, 2017 - 02:06 am
Yeah super gots the right idea, theres something up with my corporations needing ridiculous amounts of needed cash. |
| Khome | Friday, October 13, 2017 - 05:45 am
Yup, no doubt; still happening. I'm having to log on hourly to make sure i'm not trillions in the red. I've looked through my corps; it seems that the surge in cash hike in each corp usually happens around the $43 billion mark. This is a problem.... |
| Khome | Friday, October 13, 2017 - 05:46 am
...and another thing, if these corps keep taking cash from enterprises and corps, where does that cash end up going if not in the corp? |
| Jauterson001 | Saturday, October 14, 2017 - 01:06 am
Khome.. I haven't seen yet where the money has disappeared during one of the transfers. I am still just transferring it back after. I am also noticing it happen around 43B for some odd reason. |
| Khome | Saturday, October 14, 2017 - 03:08 am
Yeah, 43B seems to be the trigger point. I've been moving money back in my enterprises to, the countries are having problems because you can't transfer out of corps there. |
| Fantasticzero | Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 11:29 am
Got the same thing here.
I usually set cash for all corps to 40B and had no problem while making profit and only ones loosing would take like 30B from enterprise, but now, even 40~45B doesn't work. The thing is, many of my corps are in red most of the time (I internally contract products around to minimize outside trade, just for my own satisfaction) + my enterprise is in big debt anyway, so I need the money to repay it, but this thing keep bringing in more loans just to satisfy those hungry corps.
I had to set it to 50B to make the cash flow stablised.
I'm playing a cash tight game here. or rather, I did. I want to play the business as I want to. pls look into it. |
| Khome | Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 05:51 pm
GM very silent.... A lot of complaints about this.... I lost a lot of funds on this, I don't know how, or where it's going. |
| Sheepman RGB | Monday, October 16, 2017 - 03:40 am
Same khome. |
| Heisenberg | Monday, October 16, 2017 - 04:25 am
I've lost somewhere around 27T already.
Don't worry, I kissed it goodbye before it left. |
| Khome | Monday, October 16, 2017 - 10:30 am
GM! Something is seriously wrong! Where are you! |
| Andy | Monday, October 16, 2017 - 12:10 pm
I promised to look into it and I did.
We have recently increased the maximum loans a corporation can have before it is bankrupted.
This was done to reduce bankruptcies and allow the mechanism that tries to save them by cash transfers, to do its job.
In the process, we also increased the margin between showing a warning on the corporations page and real bankruptcy.
This caused the "save-the-corporation" process to trigger earlier and more forceful.
The result was that in case the cash in corporations went under 40B, it could receive 35B from the owner (Country or Enterprise).
This happens if the owner has enough cash.
We think that these higher levels of cash in corporations will help reduce bankruptcies.
We will reduce these amounts to the level before the debt-max-change.
This will take place tomorrow, Tuesday Oct. 17 with the coming upgrade.
The entire process never lost any money to any country or enterprise.
It was a cash transfer between these entities.
|
| Andy | Monday, October 16, 2017 - 08:09 pm
Just to correct you.
Nobody has lost a penny.
These were transfers from the countries and enterprises into all the corporations with cash under 40B, giving each one of them 35B.
for 100 corporations it is 3.5T and for 400, it is 14T.
This happened before too but at 30B and the transfer was 25B.
we are returning to the previous numbers tomorrow.
We think that the new numbers were better but we will leave it for now as numbers in the game keep falling and at some point, the total effect will reach the same result. |
| Jauterson001 | Monday, October 16, 2017 - 08:22 pm
I do believe that nobody lost any money during these transfers. My only question pertains to the enterprises that had to take loans to cover the automatic transfers. If the enterprises never made the transfers, then they wouldn't have to take any loans to cover the shortfall of cash in the CEO. Obviously these can be paid back when you transfer the money back out of the corps and into the CEO. But what about the interest paid on the loans? I do see that as lost money there. Not much lost money but there is a little bit there ;)
Thanks for getting this issue resolved and explained! |
| Johanas Bilderberg | Monday, October 16, 2017 - 10:53 pm
Thanks Andy. I am sure digging through hundreds of lines of code wasn't fun.
Also no one lost money. It is the same as taking it from your wallet and putting it in your pocket. |
| Khome | Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 12:27 am
Problem with putting the money from the wallet into the pocket is that the "wallet" was trillions into the negative while the pocket was overflowing. Very few of my corps were close to bankruptcy, even if there were more, this solution was causing more of a problem than necessary.
If anything, make this an optional automated feature; where the president or CEO can choose to have these automatic transfers to happen or not. I sure do not see the point; if any of my corps were running deficits, going into debt and close to bankruptcy, I just transferred cash into them manually and paid off the loans on my own. MUCH EASIER to manage. The mass automation was just superfluous and was an attempt to address a relatively minor problem with a sweeping solution to the majority of our other corps.
But yes, thank you for returning it! I'll handle my own debts; I did fine. |
| Andy | Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 10:19 am
This feature was running for years with smaller numbers and we had never any discussion about it.
When we increased the max loan level, we have implicitly increased these amounts.
We are now going back to what it was for ever and it helps a lot with people who are not aware of the bankruptcy possibility and it prevents many problems.
Just try to keep the cash in the corporations above 30B and it will hardly ever trigger. If it does, it will be very few corporations and the amount will be
few * 25B |
| Fantasticzero | Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 06:10 pm
Ok, I see what you guys tried to do with the change. Only problem with that is, most of people here talking here had to see their enterprise in bigger debt cos of the change, including me. If it's about 25B and minimum at 30B, you can tight-manage companies and have all that cash for enterprise to expand and so on. There may be possibility of bankruptcy of companies with low cash, but I never had the problem with 25B injection.
If you have a load of cash enough to inject 30B to all the companies you own, it's not a big deal. but someone like me doesn't have that much cash available in enterprise and I have to bring loans for that. Bigger loan means more interest, and more loosing.
I agree that new settings had its merits, with the new max loan level setting. It's just that injection of 35B was a little harsh for ones like us. |
| Andy | Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - 09:35 am
We agree.
we already returned to the lower numbers.
It was never our intention to change them but we do need this feature. |
| Sheepman RGB | Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - 02:33 pm
well atleast my goods dident disappear, thank you andy  |
| Khome | Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - 02:37 pm
The way it is set now, keeping corps just above 30B with only 25B transferred if it falls below 30B, is making a great difference now! My enterprises are no longer in the negative and my corps are still doing great.
I'll say it again, thank you!! |
| SuperSoldierRCP | Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - 09:54 pm
Andy,
In regards to state corps will be be able anytime soon to be able to transfer money in or out of them the same way CEO's can? |
| Andy | Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - 10:21 pm
State corporations, by design, do not do that.
These corporations where they exist in the real world, are not treated like corporations in a private conglomerate. |
