| Andy | Thursday, May 2, 2013 - 04:30 pm 
The formula computing the score is changed with the latest upgrade.
As a result, the score is increasing for all countries and might end up 1000 points higher than before.
The change is applied one day after the previous month award list was fixed and it will stabilize long before the end of the month.
We see some players who won large awards end up with negative scores. The changes will allow them to return to positives numbers earlier.
The new formula does not change much in the relative positions although some parameters have a different weight:
The assets index lost a bit of its influence.
The population numbers also lost a couple percentage points of their weight on the index and so did the game level.
On the other hand, the financial index gained some weight.
Planned changes:
The defense index is quite important in the score. We think that its weight should be maximized while the availability of various types of military units should be taken into account too, not just numbers of weapons. |
| Crafty | Thursday, May 2, 2013 - 06:45 pm
Agreed. Good adjustments if done right. |
| Crafty | Thursday, May 2, 2013 - 09:13 pm
Arghhhh, what are these obscene pop-up adverts all over the place?
My anti-virus software/firewall flags them up as malicious, I would recommend no one opens any of them. This is bad news as we have to allow pop-ups and cookies to play the game, so letting these kind of phishing/tracking/cookie laying applets in is inevitable.
Were the credentials of these people checked before having them GM? |
| Andy | Thursday, May 2, 2013 - 09:31 pm
adverts?
we have nothing to do with any adverts.
is it your computer doing this to you? |
| Crafty | Thursday, May 2, 2013 - 09:39 pm
Yes Andy, I have come to the conclusion that it is.
My apologies, as it only appeared on this site I made a rash assumption it was the games issue, but I have now seen it somewhere else, so sorry again, and guess I better look at what is going on...it's just been dis-infected by a reputable software as well... |
| Crafty | Friday, May 3, 2013 - 12:19 am
Just for information, it is an extension that loads itself onto your browser. It is called solidsavings and just pops up annoying adverts. Easily removed. |
| Andy | Wednesday, May 8, 2013 - 10:36 am
Scores have increased in recent days, in most countries, and we see smaller numbers of negative scores.
Some remain deep negative (they do not show negative numbers on the list). These players won multiple high awards.
The next update will push the score into even higher numbers and we hope that everyone will show a positive score. |
| Serpent | Wednesday, May 8, 2013 - 07:44 pm
It dosent really matter what your score is does it? As long as the difference between them stays the same. I mean it dont matter if the top is 1000 and the low is -500 or if the low is 500 and the top is 2000 does it? |
| Jark Valiga | Thursday, May 9, 2013 - 05:43 am
I don't think it does.... Andy why are players with multiple inefficiencies consistently ranked higher then me .... ex 120% social security. unbalanced indexes. ridiculous taxes. poorly trained army |
| Aaron | Thursday, May 9, 2013 - 08:44 am
cause i'm that awesome, Jark |
| Andy | Thursday, May 9, 2013 - 11:30 am
The score difference matters. not the score itself.
we just want the score to be a positive number.
raising it for everyone does not change anything.
the score is a good measure. It is an average of many factors and we are convinced it is a reliable measure.
A high score means the country is doing the right thing across many indexes. |
| Crafty | Friday, May 10, 2013 - 11:45 pm
I think maybe the influence of game level should be reconsidered in that case. It is not always desirable to keep large amounts of cash or weapons active in an empire to keep the game level up. The country could be doing all the right things but not wanting to keep some requirements as high as they need be for game level. |
| Rich Coyle | Saturday, May 11, 2013 - 01:08 am
This screwed me!?!?!?! I went from Rank 14 on GR and i plummiting to rank 50+ |
| Mittens | Sunday, May 12, 2013 - 07:05 pm
Hi Andy,
Try as I might I don't understand the Financial Index computations. For instance, the country, The Place of Much Flatulance, has -858B in cash, taken out loans (including one from my country) in the amount of 3.14T, has a monthly income of 3.24B yet has a Finance Index of 142. Whereas my country has 4.93T in cash, offered loans of 7.3T, generates 14.28B monthly, yet has a Financial Index of 123. I've read up on the subject but am still at a loss.
ML |
| Borg Queen | Monday, May 13, 2013 - 12:04 am
Mittens, afaik its roughly like this:
(Income/Cost)*100=Financial Index
But as with every index it only changes gradually, so if you have an Index of 100 the one month and afterwards earn twice as much as your costs are you wont get to 200 instanlty but over a few months, the index changing faster the higher the discrepancy between what it is and what it should be |
| Space313 | Monday, May 13, 2013 - 12:13 am
I agree with the major changes such as adding more weight to the financial index, however, adding more weight to your defense index should have more weight on FB, instead of the other worlds. On WG, which is the one I'm on, I do not manage or have military units, therefore, I have a lower defense index, which will lower my score. I deleted them since this world, it was not necessary for you to defend yourself, but of course, this advice isn't the opinion of everyone, but please consider my opinion, thank you. |
| Andy | Tuesday, May 14, 2013 - 06:12 pm
The cash is part of your assets.
The financial index is a function of your income, compared to your cost, this year and the previous one. |
| Scarlet | Wednesday, May 15, 2013 - 05:08 am
Borg Queen's thing is right as far as I know... but you won't get an FI of 200 unless you pass 100B in monthly costs (I haven't actually had costs run this high for quite some time due to game money deflation). Basically, it caps out at like somewhere under 150-something otherwise.
I should be getting 200 FI in my main on KB (70B income, 35B cost), but it's still like ~152. |
| Andy | Wednesday, May 15, 2013 - 09:23 am
The index depends on this year and last year's relation between the income and cost.
it is not a simple division of the two.
a FI of 150+ is excellent.
I agree that the FI should have a heavy weight on the score. It does already.
we will add a page that gives more info on the score. |
| Laguna | Wednesday, May 15, 2013 - 06:34 pm
The shape of the financial index function is similar to x/(x+160)
x = Revenue/Expenses and x < 2.
I'm assuming it is asymptotic at 160. Call it an educated guess. |
| Borg Queen | Wednesday, May 15, 2013 - 06:51 pm
well Laguna, I hope it isnt asymptotic to 160 as that would make it quite hard to get to peacefull game lvl 13 which requires an average FI of 180 ;)
BTW Talking about SC$ and Game Lvls:
Andy, didnt you say a few months ago that it is planed to reduce the SC$ needed for Game Lvls because of the reduction in overall costs and income? |
| Andy | Thursday, May 16, 2013 - 12:28 pm
The financial index formula has noithing in it with 160 or any other number.
We have already reduced the cash needed for game levels and will reduce it more. |
| Scarlet | Friday, May 17, 2013 - 05:18 am
Well, something is keeping the FI from passing 160. If this is not intended, then I'd recommend taking a look again.
While I'm pretty confident in my general description (it being a cap), obviously, I don't have access to your formulas... but whether you've applied the "banana smoothing" to the FI or not isn't going to be all that important in the long run... what is important is that reaching an FI of say 170 is nigh impossible. |
| Laguna | Friday, May 17, 2013 - 08:52 pm
Quote:well Laguna, I hope it isnt asymptotic to 160 as that would make it quite hard to get to peacefull game lvl 13 which requires an average FI of 180 ;)
When the costs are larger than 100B, it isn't horizontally asymptotic at 160 or anything.
Quote:The financial index formula has nothing in it with 160 or any other number.
Doesn't matter. What I wrote is a good enough approximation.
Just lower the breaking point to 50B or something. |
| Borg Queen | Friday, May 17, 2013 - 10:03 pm
Andy, when was the Money reduction done?
I've been around peaceful Game lvl 7-9 for quite some while and all the while it didnt change from what I remember. And for lvl 16 I'm quite sure it was average 120T SC$ since I looked up requirements first which should be real long ago |
| Andy | Saturday, May 18, 2013 - 02:03 pm
There were two reductions recently in required cash levels, mainly in the high levels but also in the mid levels and more will follow as all numbers keep declining although at a slow pace.
I think that when the relation between income and cost (this year and last, during a prolonged period, and one of the two counts heavier) reaches a factor of about 2, the index could reach about 180. It is linear up to about 130-140. |
| Scarlet | Saturday, May 18, 2013 - 03:55 pm
Quote:I think that when the relation between income and cost (this year and last, during a prolonged period, and one of the two counts heavier) reaches a factor of about 2, the index could reach about 180. It is linear up to about 130-140.
Unless you're talking real years, this is not the case. My main on KB has been doing 2:1 income:cost ratio for quite some time and the index is like ~152 right now. |
| Otto Ozgard | Saturday, May 18, 2013 - 08:00 pm
is it even possible to maintain that high an index without killer taxes? |
| Andy | Friday, May 24, 2013 - 04:36 pm
Scarlet,
As always, we need the country name to look into it.
If the income is twice the cost, for this game tear and last, the index will increase to about 180 but the increase takes time.
I don't know what killer taxes are.
There are no taxes on the difference between income and cost. |
| Scarlet | Saturday, May 25, 2013 - 07:02 pm
I let it slip this week, but my country is Snow on KB. At the time of that post, the income was like 195% of the cost. Income is like 190% of cost right now. FI is ~152.
The FI is dropping, but from like 151.8X to 151.5X
If you were saying that I specifically needed to break 2:1 income:cost ratio to get out of the 150-something FI sinkhole, then I'll admit that I've been hovering just below it. Otherwise, I figure based on what you said, I should be able to get at least 160 if not 170. |
| Andy | Sunday, May 26, 2013 - 10:11 am
Obviously, the FI is what it should be as computed by this formula.
as I said before, it is not linear.
a liitle less that 2 or 1.9 does not mean it will be a little less than 180 |
| Laguna | Sunday, May 26, 2013 - 11:40 am
151 is not a little less than 180. |
| Scarlet | Sunday, May 26, 2013 - 10:20 pm
| Country (KB) | Finance Index | Income YTD (M) | Cost YTD (M) | Ratio | | The Independent State of Inttera Dos | 168.08 | 305807.54 | 57279.36 | 5.3388784372 | | The Independent State of Corason | 167.91 | 289455.98 | 55117.94 | 5.2515747141 | | The Republic of Sanegoria | 167.92 | 291902.18 | 55946.5 | 5.2175235269 | | The Independent State of Xasilon | 167.84 | 289026.51 | 54272.95 | 5.3254247282 | | The Democratic Union of Sanoko | 166.78 | 285613.03 | 56753.76 | 5.0324952919 | | The Empire of Pomadre | 166.48 | 287047.1 | 57153.54 | 5.0223853151 | | Freedom Empire | 166.51 | 308204.41 | 63568.28 | 4.8483993904 | | The Independent State of Barma | 166.1 | 314554.31 | 52546.23 | 5.9862393553 | |
|
| Andy | Monday, May 27, 2013 - 09:06 am
I checked the first one.
The country is new and receives support from the GM as all countries in the first period.
out of the 372B YTD income, 200B+ is a gift.
there are no countries with a ratio of 5.
Obviously, it is taking place as in the formula I can see on my screen.
I also do not see why the level of the FI matters so much.
If it was higher, all other factors that depend on it would be updated too. so what exactly is the point.
The only issue is:
should it remain linear or not and if not, at what level it bounces. currently, it bounces at about 130-135. |
| Borg Queen | Monday, May 27, 2013 - 01:51 pm
Andy, obviously the Level of the FI matters as it is one factor of the game level |
| Scarlet | Monday, May 27, 2013 - 03:54 pm
Man up and just say it's working as intended.
There's no need for giving false information and deleting my posts. I'll call you on false information every time.
There is an OBVIOUS wall past 150 finance index where the FI barely budges despite dractic increases in income/cost ratio. |
| Borg Queen | Monday, May 27, 2013 - 04:39 pm
Btw Andy, about the effect of the beginners boost on the FI: I just looked up 'The Independent State of Alexandra', one of the newer countries that still receive gifts, I come to realize that either if the formula is calculated with the beginners Booster it is running at a Ratio of better then 4:1 (Income:Cost) and the Index of 164.68 at the Moment is too low, or if the FI is calculated without the Beginners Booster it is having a minus total, which both wouldnt follow the numbers you said. So does Beginners Boost affect the FI just like any other income or is the effect lower?
I know, game programmers dont like to do it, but why dont you just tell us the formula so we just can see that it does what it should do? Not the code, just the formula. Would be very nice |
| Laguna | Tuesday, May 28, 2013 - 12:43 am
Quit deleting posts. It harms the game. |
| Scarlet | Tuesday, May 28, 2013 - 05:21 pm
Beginner's Boost affects the FI just like any other income. All the highest FI countries fit the pattern of high beginner's boosts with the low costs of a starting country. The list I posted was the highest FI countries and they all fit that pattern.
Andy deleted my post with the list of countries not fitting that description, but the general information was that it was close to linear (income/cost ratio) up to 150 FI, then afterward, it appeared to jump from 1 FI point corresponding to a .01 increase in ratio to 1 FI point corresponding to a .2 increase in ratio. Meaning after 150 FI it looks to take 20x the increase in income as it did before to raise the index by 1 point. |
| Borg Queen | Tuesday, May 28, 2013 - 09:31 pm
As far as I can check those numbers you seem to be right about the increase Scarlet. Seems linear before 150 with 1 FI/ 0.01 Ratio increase and afterwards 1 FI/ 0.2 Ratio increase.
So, what does that mean for the game if it is correct:
1.5:1 Ratio = 150 FI (required for highest war level)
2:1 Ratio = 152.5 FI
3:1 Ratio = 157.5 FI
5:1 Ratio = 167.5 FI
10:1 Ratio = 192.5 FI
15.5:1 Ratio = 220 FI (required for highest peacefull level)
So lets say if you have a country that does fit all other Indexes for peaceful game lvl 16 that would mean you have expanses of lets say about 150B per Game month, so you would need to produce about 2325B income to reach that game level. o.O
So maybe Andy you see why we wonder about the FI. |
| Crafty | Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - 02:34 am
I dunno what you lot are complaining about. The FI has always been this way.
Try getting ratios over 2:1 with minimum costs of 100B for an long period and you will see your FI climb closer to 200.
You may be right that the devaluation of currency may ask questions of the cost/income numbers but it wont have changed the ratios. |
