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Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 12:43 am  Maggie's Dead, Hooray.
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 02:34 am Who's Maggie??
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 04:19 am lee, you're a pathetic individual to say such a thing about anyone.
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 05:00 am Celebrating the death of the woman who saved Britain? Stay classy Lord Lee. Before you speak, how about you consider the fact that you, as an individual, will never, ever contribute nearly as much as she did to the world.
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 12:13 pm Thats true, she certainly made that decision to save the Falkland Islands that was invaded by the Argentines, the attack they did was unprovoked and did'nt even have the decency to declare war against us, they just took it over night. But what you're saying here Lee is a disgrace, you should be ashamed of yourself you socialist left wing prick. How would you like it if the rest of her family wished one of your parents dead? Just as well I left the NLUO on this game if we've stupid, wrong thinking ones such as this one. Of course I hav'nt forgotten when THIS ONE especially did'nt even back me up during my war with Serpent, so he's just showing himself up for what he is now.
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 01:26 pm She destroyed lives and decimated communities. She was homophobic and supported the apartheid government in South Africa. Called the ANC and Nelson Mandela terrorists. Was friend's with dictator Augusto Pinochet of Chile, orders the sinking of the Belgrano as it was retreating causing the deaths of 323 people. Today there's a party in Trafalgar Square, London celebrating her death and demise and the song Ding Dong the Witch is Dead is going to be number 1 in the UK music charts tomorrow. Rust in Hell Thatcher.
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 01:45 pm I dont think this is the place for such sentiment. Very very sick. So disappointed in you.
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 02:43 pm So what if she destroyed the coal mining communities such as Wakefield and Barnsley etc... you've got to move on in life and can't expect publicly run compainies and services to keep your jobs all your lives. Thats the problem with the working classes in the north, they are far too dependant on the government to provide everything for them, including all they can get out of benefits. I would'nt be stupid like them and stop there wheres theres no jobs anyymore. I know this because I live in Bradford myself, which is where the Labour Party was founded to speak up for them. I would'nt say she was fully homophobic since she supported a bill that did'nt get passed back in the 1960s to decriminalize homosexuality. But still generally hostile to them, just like I am as it is just wrong, END OF. She was right to support the apartheid government in South Africa at that time as the white minority were simply not safe to even walk the streets there simply because they were white, that government certainly kept law and order there until that government collapsed. Now it has one of the highest crime rates in the world of where the white people there are now being beaten and killed on a regular basis every year, going into untold hundreds if not thousands as she knew this was going to happen once Nelson Mandela took charge. They may have freedom, but it's certainly come at a high price. Why I would care about the loss of the Belgrano, you forgot to mention it was an argentine battleship, i'm afraid thats war. Also just remember who started the whole falklands war incident in the first place, our navy were only just returning a favour for their cowardly unprovoked attack. I can't believe you care more about those argentine soldiers killed than our own 400+ british soldiers that were killed there who fought very bravely to protect that is rightfully ours. What a f**king traitor you are thinking like that. What a shame there is'nt an interceptor party to root out those socialist traitors we have in London and elsewhere. Just how the way the muslim brotherhood in Egypt are dealing with all those left wing socialists and secularists there. I say good luck to them to chasing them off the streets.
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 04:47 pm I never agreed with Maggie's policies -- but cheering the death of anyone is utterly horrible... I'm polar opposite of Maggie's positions (and Reagan's) - but she lived a long and fruitful life neverless... May she rest in peace.
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 05:54 pm Lee, you deserve to die! Making fun of such a person, maybe you should be the one who is in that casket
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 07:03 pm Im not being funny lee... but all these people who are having death partys in the street and are looking to do a stupid protest that will also cost money because the police then have to monitor it, are pathetic useless twats who want nothing but attention!! the lady is dead... who on earth do people like yourself think your going to amuse huh?? certainly not her... thatcher is dead... and her policeys are still useful... your alive and being pathetic... I hope GM removes this topic. You are one of the lowest people I have ever had the chance to chat to!
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 07:05 pm lee what planet are you on??
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 07:15 pm He's on LU. In NLUO.
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 07:53 pm Good Riddance. That's what I say and so do millions of British people.
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 07:53 pm She was a cruel evil bully.
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 07:54 pm To James the fair. You're just a stupid bigot.
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 07:57 pm shouldn't this be posted in "Nationalities" :-/ This says allot about freedom of speech where ppl can host a "party" in a public square in order to make fun of a dead girl. :-/ /me wonders how thus would play out in, lets say, china. :p
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 08:12 pm Obviously you can't take the truth can you of what i've just said? because you know i'm right, and you're obviously brainwashed by the propoganda and all the multicultural nonsense we have here in this country, and many more millions of people have had enough of it and are turning to the more right wing parties like UKIP and the more desperate ones are even turning to the BNP, and thats a fact. Call me stupid all you want Lord Lee, you're still a traitor and you know it.
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 08:14 pm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMFjFoq6T9M
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 08:15 pm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3dvb567v4s
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 08:16 pm Oh yeah also, where ever you are in this country. Try living up here where I am with all your socialist friends, i'm sure you'll like it here as it's such as those who scheme, steal and talk about you behind your back, as I know this only too well in real life. I hate the pricks.
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 08:17 pm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ6SjnPIomI
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 08:18 pm Anyway i'm ending this conversation before things get out of hand.
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 08:21 pm Watch the British people celebrate 
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 08:30 pm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtClJYJBj8&NR=1&feature=endscreen
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 08:56 pm Lee, are you old enough to remember anything Thatcher did, were you even a twinkle in your old mans eyes? Did you work in heavy industry, down a mine, build ships, run a multi national bank? Nope, didn't think so. These people are just more of the teenage wasteland using any excuse to riot and then blame the police. I know you can remember the Tottenham riots, notice the similarity?
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 09:28 pm The Guardian newspaper has live reports from Trafalgar Square: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2013/apr/13/margaret-thatcher-protests-cuts-live
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| Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 09:37 pm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHlHxiZeUK0
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| Sunday, April 14, 2013 - 04:10 pm Ah, I was wondering when a 'Thatcher' thread would appear. I have to admit, it took longer than I expected. The posts so far show that, even in death, she retains the ability to split opinion. Here's mine: Falklands Despite being a Brit, I don't much care whether we keep them or not. We are no longer the colonial power we once were and cannot really afford to defend these rocks in the arse-end-of-nowhere (I'm not just talking about the Falklands here). Yes, there might be oil in the surrounding seas, but we'd probably profit more from selling our North Sea drilling technology to the Argentinians than spending the profits from doing the drilling ourselves on defending the islands. The complicating factor is the islanders themselves who still want to remain British. Like Northern Ireland, Gibraltar, and a few other loyal, but tiny places, we are committed to defending them and I reckon we're probably stuck with them for the foreseeable future. The arguments for/against British/Argentine sovereignty are complicated by the fact that the treaties between Britain and Argentina (signed in the 18th and 19th Centuries) fail to mention the Falklands. Unless lawyers and historians weigh in and come up with a definitive decision as to which way those treaties go, I think we must abide by the decisions of the residents themselves. Net result: we're stuck with them. I'm less ambivalent about the Falklands War itself: aggression from a military dictatorship in Argentina was thrown back by a British leader committed to defending our subject people (although it's notable that British Citizenship was removed from Falkland Islanders in 1981 well before the war, but later restored in 1983). The sinking of the Belgrano remains controversial, but only because Britain and Argentina were not officially at war (this is now a common feature of 'war', which is required to dodge the need to get approval from the UN). As a result, we declared that we would confine British actions to the Maritime Exclusion Zone around the Falklands. The Belgrano was outside this zone and not heading towards it (Argentina claimed it was returning to port). Had we officially been at war, sinking the Belgrano would have caused no controversy. Strategically, we needed to sink it. Legally, we had no grounds. Net result: Controversy. The Unions/shifting the British economy away from inefficient state corporations In the 1970s, the Union movement brought Britain to its knees. Unlike in the USA, where Unions are perhaps more necessary to lobby for better working conditions, health benefits, etc., most of these functions were handled by the Welfare State in Britain. The Unions ended up with way too much power and continued to lobby for massive subsidies to extremely inefficient and unprofitable sectors of the economy. They needed breaking. Thatcher managed it. However, where Thatcher failed... miserably, was in providing an alternative source of employment. We are still living with the consequences of this. Closing the pits and privatising those bits of state corporations that had the potential to be profitable was the right thing to do. Her attitude that 'the free market will provide' was simply wrong - large areas of the country that had thousands of well-paid, but low-skilled work in the mines, manufacturing, etc. do not adjust overnight when those jobs disappear. The skillset required for the service industry is utterly different, and even those workers who moved into vehicle manufacturing (which was far less labour-intensive, so provided fewer replacement jobs) struggled to adapt their skills. There was NOTHING to replace them, and precious little help from the government for the entire communities which were destroyed by this policy. It unbalanced Britain's economy causing an even greater divide between the service-industry oriented South-East and the rest of the country. Deregulating the City of London may have helped the government's finances, but only served to widen the gap between North and South (and also represents the start of the changes the led to the late-2000s financial crisis - Thatcher's not to blame for this, but the changes she introduced were certainly the first steps on the path). Likewise, in the coming decades we might start to view North Sea Oil as a missed opportunity. Thatcher's government used the revenue from this to pay for tax cuts. Personally I think we should have created a Sovereign Wealth Fund along the lines of what Norway did with its North Sea Oil revenue, and use this as an investment vehicle to develop our infrastructure. I think this would have worked out cheaper than the hideous public-private-partnerships favoured by the Labour government and continued by the coalition. Anyway, that's more opinion than any sort of detailed analysis. International opinions of Thatcher My impression is that she was highly regarding in the States and Eastern Europe for her strong relationship with Reagan and opposition to the Soviet Union. British people tend to forget this, Americans tend not to realise how polarising her domestic policies were. Consider this paragraph to be a plea for both sides to learn more about the other before condemning people's opinions. Her death and public reaction I think too many people have reacted with far too much glee at the news of her death. Dancing on her grave will achieve nothing. Most of them are too young to have any first-hand experience of her premiership (I was only 9 when she left office), but will have inherited their hatred from their parents. Ten years ago I would have counted myself among them. Being more widely read now, I can better make a distinction between the things that she was necessary for (trampling the unions) and the mistakes she made (although many of these are only apparent with hindsight). I haven't bought 'Ding, Dong the Witch is Dead', nor do I intend to. However, I am no fan of Thatcher as Prime Minister, either. Claims that we shouldn't speak ill of the dead should not mean that we can't discuss her policies and their effects on the country. James the Fair Labelling opponents of Thatcher as "socialist left wing prick[s]" devalues your point that cheering Thatcher's death is abhorrent. Your rant about the destruction of coal mining communities, homophobia, South Africa and the sinking of the Belgrano is ill-thought out and suggests that you have a fairly simplistic black-and-white view of history. I hope, in time, you will come to regret your youthful outbursts (especially your talk about an "interceptor party") and realise that there are far more shades of grey. Our democracy is not founded on 'he who shouts loudest, wins' and you do not contribute anything of value to the debate by hoping for people to "root out those socialist traitors we have in London and elsewhere". These are views that leave you open to a public order offence if shouted across Centenary Square (I know Bradford reasonably well as a frequent visitor). Labelling Lord Lee and other people who do not share your political views "traitors" is stupid and anti-democratic (not to mention, authoritarian). We will never find agreement if we discuss homosexuality - I take very liberal positions on social issues, you, it seems, do not. All I will say on this issue is that Section 28 had far reaching consequences beyond the immediate ones it was introduced to address. Its worst effect was on bullying - teachers felt unable to challenge homophobic bullying in the classroom even though the victims were usually academic boys who hated sports, or sporty girls. The sexual orientation of the bullying victim was usually irrelevant. The bully would use it solely as a label feeling safe in the knowledge that teachers were unlikely to challenge its use. I agree that Thatcher was correct in saying that Mandela and the ANC were terrorists, but only insofar as it represents a textbook definition. I agreed with their aims, if not their methods. The crime rate is a result of the massive inequalities that built up over decades of rule by an racist regime. Whilst I provide no excuse for the criminals, do you not think that the white community have reaped what they have sown? Similar situations have arisen in other countries where a powerful minority has fallen from power - the response should be to manage the transition carefully to try to minimise the worst of it, rather than painting one side as lawless criminals who deserved their previous disenfranchised state. It is to Thatcher's shame that she sided with the supporters of Apartheid rather than working to enfranchise the black community. But then, this matches her stance over Northern Ireland - it wasn't until the terrorists (the IRA) were brought into negotiations for the Good Friday agreement that a reasonably stable and lasting peace could break out. Thatcher's dogmatic refusal to negotiate made things much worse in the short-term whilst only delaying the inevitable need for dialogue. Alyan Locien Thatcher wasn't a nationality. Her political legacy and a discussion about it is relevant to many on both sides of the Atlantic. It's a topical discussion that belongs in 'General' rather than buried away in one of the less-used Forums.
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| Sunday, April 14, 2013 - 09:30 pm oh damn... for a half a second we were happy when we read the Thread title and that it comes from Lee... but then we had to realize its not about the end of NLUO...
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| Sunday, April 14, 2013 - 11:10 pm i know... i thought the same when i saw it. Though, i was wondering who the witch was in NLUO. :p
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| Sunday, April 14, 2013 - 11:45 pm I like Skandar's post.
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| Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 04:27 am Skandar what you said about me was fair, but like you said the word 'traitor' was idiotic and stupid of me as it is not even the right word to describe him for someone who holds different views compared to my own. I think he is just wrong in my opinion, I could have also said the same thing about your liberalism. It's just I don't like the idea of socialism and the people that are in it. However some of their policies are good such as the nationalisation of Powerstations and railways. Maybe the 'Interceptor Party' thing was way too over the top for even something as distasteful for celebrating over the death of a good leader like her. I was acually thinking that things were going to escalate very quickly of how the way the 2011 riots did, of where it got up to the point that a lot of people came out to support the police to root out the troublemakers. But since there has been celebrations over other leaders deaths in history, either left wing or right wing, is it really that much different? Where I stand on homosexuality is still the same, but I do know one person who I know personally in Bradford who is already a bit of a weirdo and is planning to be a transexual. In my opinion it is wrong, more wrong than being gay or lesbian, but it is also true that people can live in anyway they want in a democracy. You will never change my views on that since I have been brought up with traditional English values like the majority of my ancestors have. However I am not an expert in every event that has been mentioned like how the way you are, the number of people who rely heavilly on wikipedia to get a lot of their information from is amazing, but I do have a good grasp of them of what happened in those coal mines, the falklands, or the apartied regime in South Africa. As I know people personally of all ages who have worked, served and lived in those very places who have experienced it and would have no reason to lie about it, as they have proved it to me. I could never imagine to know what it was like for them. Although overall I get the impression with you that you are living a sheltered life.
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| Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 05:13 am Shame on Lee, as a German I admired the Iron Lady, our Bundeskanzlerin should be well following a similar example, +1 to Skandar and I don't like Argentinien, a wanna be European country so yeah I'm glad you Brits won the War.
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| Friday, April 19, 2013 - 02:49 am I didn't agree with most of Thatchers policies either, just like Reagan, however I still think they are both intriguing historical figures.
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| Friday, April 19, 2013 - 03:02 am Thatcher was against the German Re-unification, but still... No need to celebrate death.
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| Friday, April 19, 2013 - 05:54 pm Will one see how will things go with out concerv leadership. Rob
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| Friday, April 19, 2013 - 10:11 pm Lee, you should never celebrate a person's death (unless it is Hitler's, then it is okay). For good or for ill, she led your country well.
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| Saturday, April 20, 2013 - 12:31 pm @Laguna Yeah, it's been a while. I rejoined the game a few months ago and wondered where all the big discussions had gone. This seemed like a meaty-enough topic to kick-start a decent debate. @James the Fair "I was acually thinking that things were going to escalate very quickly of how the way the 2011 riots did." To be honest, I was expecting more of a protest at her funeral than actually occurred. I'm quite glad it went off quietly with just a dignified back-turning protest. "You will never change my views on that since I have been brought up with traditional English values" [Take this as a tongue-in-cheek comment!] Oh, like traditional values of tolerance and openness? Seems a bit of a contrast to your views. Seriously, though, what do you consider to be traditional English values? We've long been a tolerant country, open to new ideas and intolerant to intolerance (inevitably, with a few exceptions). I think it's been our strongest 'value'. In WW2, when US troops requested segregated pubs for their black and white troops, we said 'no'. When fights broke out between them, the locals pitched in on the side of the blacks. Going back further, although we were heavily involved in the slave trade, we were first to ban the trade and one of the first to ban slavery throughout our empire (Spain beat us to it, but never really enforced their ban). At the time, the 'traditional' elements within the Church of England vocally argued against this. It was pushed more by the newer evangelical groups like the Quakers. "I get the impression with you that you are living a sheltered life." Funny that, I got the same impression about you. Do not mistake my tolerance and patience for signs of a sheltered life. Rather than responding to the insult in an attempt to prove I haven't, I shall let it pass for now.
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| Sunday, April 21, 2013 - 06:55 pm skander well done calling out the typikal cliche conservative rhetoric
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| Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 09:00 am BEFORE i start, yes i was there,did some demos,saw some riot,and helped some miners not to get caught(sorry mets)thatcher carried out every policy that the tories could think of ,which (debatably) helps the economy. the trouble is that these policies are only good if you are on the correct side of the wealth fence ie: plenty of capital,or high earnings. if you are in the lower income bracket you will always suffer under tories if you are out of work there is a good chance as in thatcher's day that you will become part of an underclass. on top of this tories always create social division.Watch thatcher's speach outside number 10 when she was first elected (thats the one on bring harmony,hope etc)then reverse what she says and you have it. Another thing that tories always do is make sure that there is plenty of unemployment to create competition for jobs etc,this is also extreemly socially devisive. I could go on forever about who keeps who in power,he who pays the fiddler calls the tune etc,but it sadly does boil down to conservative governments look after the rich first. And before all you labour lot nod in agreement ,they are also to blame for thatcher being in power for so long because they were so useless, for two main reasons: (1) they could not find a charismatic srong leader.(2) they would not stop fighting amongst themselves. I am not allied to any political party btw i just despise tories.
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| Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 09:50 pm "why shouldnt everyone pay the same amount of taxes" ok Maggie what are you 5? maybe if we were communist everyone could pay the same amount of taxes
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| Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 03:52 am 0% tax in great britainia on wg please feel free to build there i am eager to make strong alliences with players financial and otherwise so please do build there thank you in advance
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| Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 04:23 am smh
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