| sbroccoli | Tuesday, October 2, 2012 - 03:51 pm 
Just out of interest and to know what to strive for: what's the highest, continuos profit you have achieved in a state corporation? (recent examples, please) |
| Crafty | Tuesday, October 2, 2012 - 07:42 pm
1.4 - 1.5 B/Mnth |
| Alexandrov Stolin | Wednesday, October 3, 2012 - 03:57 am
WHAT!! HOW |
| SuperSoldierRCP | Wednesday, October 3, 2012 - 04:05 am
Before welfare/salaries updates i ran 1100-1200 salaries/151% production and made just about 2B a month |
| Drew | Wednesday, October 3, 2012 - 06:27 am
Supersoldier I've been recently told running those salaries will make your government costs increase for some weird undisclosed reason. But I'd say my best one atm is 420M at 1000 salary or 750M at 680 salary. As the contribution high salaries make to government expenses are immensely valueable I decided to include them |
| sbroccoli | Wednesday, October 3, 2012 - 11:01 am
It's not undisclosed AFAIK. GOvernment salaries are supposed to be no less than half the average worker salaries.
But thanks for the various answers.
I'm actually a bit surprised that the best results aren't higher! I'm still upgrading all my companies and salaries are somewhat low, so I was hoping the potential profit with everything optimised would be much higher.
At the present time my corps make about 0.3 B in profit in average. Only one of the 27 runs a deficit (you guessed it: defense industry ftl!) |
| SuperSoldierRCP | Wednesday, October 3, 2012 - 12:22 pm
I run 300 best income ATM.
550 is the max. 1000+ used to be profitable but the GM said it wasn't realistic, not that SC has ever been based on realisum |
| Crafty | Wednesday, October 3, 2012 - 01:27 pm
275 - 300 yes. But as Drew says, there are other advantages of higher salaries such as income tax, contributions to IFs etc, more payment to health and ed and so on.
There's only a few corp types I can make pay over 1B/month regularly. |
| Mizore | Tuesday, October 9, 2012 - 05:41 pm
Pretty sure IF contributions mean shit since they divided the IF interest by twelve. I think it would take you like 17 real years or something to recoup each dollar that goes into the investment fund.
Pension contributions mean nothing as well since they capped that at $10T.
So last I checked, tax income and health/edu contributions accounted for maybe half of salaries. Figure it could be anything now.
I don't remember any math terms, but the point where the (increase in corp salary + increase in govt salary - increase in tax/contributions - increase in corp profit) equals zero is the point where you want to stop increasing salaries... before then you want to continue increasing salaries. Moral of the story is that there is one perfect salary level for any corporation.
(EDITED) |
| Crafty | Tuesday, October 9, 2012 - 05:59 pm
Hmmm, doesn't a higher contribution to the IF mean it has more cash it can lend to the world bank to get a higher interest payment, or more cash to use on buying/selling shares for a profit.
Pensions, yep, no effect on anything. I presume they will mean something eventually.
PS. wasn't mizore one of Darkekatts pseudonyms scarlet? Or have I got myself confused there. |
| Lorelei | Tuesday, October 9, 2012 - 06:54 pm
Yes, it is our beloved Kat. Hey girl!
|
| Lorelei | Tuesday, October 9, 2012 - 10:05 pm
Oh, and relative to the topic, I'm awesome at it. |
| MantoArms | Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 12:20 am
My best corporation -Grandmas Bread- is running at -
income 2,792.53M SC$ / cost 1,696.23M SC$
My salaries at- 250
Welfare index - 98
Quality and Effectivity -200
Havnt been playing for long so i am no expert .
Beginners Income Booster 20,116.67M SC$
Profit / Shortage 19,478.52M SC$
So im still not running at a profit yet . |
| Mizore | Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 06:51 am
Crafty, may not want to confuse "better" with "good" (or rather "more" with "a lot").
As an analogy, putting money in the IF is now like investing $100 in something that pays out $1 per year. After 1,000 years, it's earned 10x the initial value sure, but you'll be dead before it makes enough to pay off the initial investment.
Let me put it this way:
Attach a timescale of how long you still expect to be around for, say 2 real years. The value of each dollar that goes into the IF is (earning ratio after 2 years * tax/contribution[health/edu] ratio of income) Say we average the tax/contribution ratio to 50%, which should be around what it is last I checked. Now the IF earnings after 2 real years is .02% per day or 14.6% of investment after 2 years... so that money you'll see is 7.3% of what goes into the IF. Now, the contributions into the IF don't seem to exceed 1% here from what I see right now. So after two years, you will earn an extra .073% on the increase in salaries... which is best thought of as an effective salary increase of 99.927% of the actual salary increase after IF contributions are taken into account.
Now, I'm pretty sure IF contributions might exceed 1% of income in a very well managed country. By the way, I also suspect that the ratio of contributions to income has gone down as well. Even if it doubles, that's still less than .15% of worker income that gets put in your pocket over 2 real years.
Now, based on previous observation (I really don't care enough to go back and do it all over again), ONLY profit from interest in the IF gets added to worker income for the month. The earnings from dividends go straight to increasing the size of the IF which means you don't directly see this. Even assuming that for each dollar you put in the IF it spends one year being used as part of a share strategy to increase the size of the IF averaging 1% (P/E ratio of 100, which is pretty good for an average), then that total goes to the fund earning interest for the second year. you will be earning 91.25% of what you'd earn if you left it as cash in the fund. For clarity: not 91.25% more, but 8.75% less. Which given the nature of the example, simply means that there probably isn't a good strategy for improving the return by much if at all.
If dividends actually work by adding the money to income to workers for the month, we're still talking low numbers, but the strat becomes more feasable since after two years you earn (assuming P/e average of 100)... 182.5% for each dollar put in over 2 real years, where you earned 7.3% earlier. Even so, given the small percentage of worker income that makes it to contributions, we're probably talking 2% of worker income that you see after 2 real years.
Which means 2% at best (if dividends go straight to worker income), less than 0.1% at worst (if dividends don't)... and more likely to be closer to 0.1% (since I'm pretty sure they don't).
These numbers are so small as to be almost meaningless in determining whether to raise salaries. Important to understand as well... the IF affects the ideal salary level of a corporation the same as any other factor. It doesn't create a completely separate high salary strategy. |
| Andy | Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 10:16 am
Mizore,
your text is confusing and not relevant at all.
Nobody puts money into the investment funds and their role in the game is currently very limited.
they cost you nothing so why all the fuss.
IFs are also contributing little to the income of people. It is a fraction of the total income and whatever is added, is spent on the market and not necessarily in your country. Interest should in fact be zero as the cash they have is not loaned to anybody.
The main function of the IF is to create a share market that is large enough to prevent some of the possible manipulations that are possible in a small market.
We have published before that there are plans to give the funds a larger role but we need to restructure them before and this is now slowly taking place.
I also do not see where some cap of 10T comes from there is no cap on any of the funds. |
| Mizore | Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 12:26 pm
Andy, the audacity of your statements never ceases to amaze me. Keep up the good work. |
| sbroccoli | Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 02:44 pm
Well, at least it was crystal clear. |
| Josias | Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 03:44 pm
... |
| Crafty | Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 04:56 pm
Quote:I also do not see where some cap of 10T comes from there is no cap on any of the funds.
The pension fund? |
| Crafty | Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 05:08 pm
Anyway, I was just stating that IF contribution was an advantage of higher salaries which it seems it still is, though very slight. This among other advantages.
I was wondering why Drews strategy had failed because, as he tells it, it is the same strategy that proved very successful for an old player named 'Quaxocal'. Some of you may remember his achievements, and any member of GREF should know of him. I dunno, but it just seems another option removed from the experimental player, the game is far more biased to one style of play only. If someone were smart enough to write a bot then the game would be all but over.
And welcome back Klar, you sexy beast you. |
| Lorelei | Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 05:28 pm
Dear Andrew,
I have to agree with Mizore. Your rebuttal post came across to me as rather harsh in your use of the word "irrelevant." I would have even taken offense to that. From a public relations standpoint, your advice and corrective comments should come across in a more constructive and respectful manner. I am degreed in Communications, with many years of Public Relations experience. I know it to be a public relations "no-no" to tell anyone (your customers) that what they spent time to post is "irrelevent" even if in your opinion it is irrelevent....get what I'm saying? Word choice is key. I'm not sure that you meant it to come across this way, but since these are words on a screen, and we are unable to hear voice inflections, one can mistakenly take offense at something not meant to be offensive. I think every post on topic is relevant even if someone may not be "accurate" in their knowledge.
And pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaase dun ban me!!! I am trying to be helpful here. |
| Crafty | Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 05:44 pm
Ban her Andy, ban her.
She called you harsh and offensive. And further, she accuses you of being unconstructive and disrespectful!
I wouldn't stand for it Andy, no sir, no way.
Crafty cowpat-flinging cockney. |
| Lorelei | Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 05:48 pm
I also welcome you back, Klar, you sexy beast, you!!!!! :P I hope, Klar, now that you are back that you can inspire Crafty to revisit Chat and get the old chatroom alive again? I've tried, but I dun have your charisma, or the long-standing friendships you have in the game. |
| Lorelei | Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 05:50 pm
Crafty, dun make me fling a shoe at your head or Andy's head for that matter, either!!!! lol I called him "Andrew" that's my endearment name for Andy. SCOWLS AT CRAFTY!!!!! (I think Crafty is trying to "off" me!) ha ha ha
Andy, dun you listen to old man, Crafty. You listen to Lorelei. Muahs! |
| Andy | Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 12:46 am
There was no intention to be harsh or rude.
I am sorry if it sounded so.
Some issues are being discussed here with incomplete knowledge of the real facts. Some times the discussion can become complex while the underlying issue is of very limited value in the game. This is why relevance came in.
We are probably to blame for it although many times the info is available but remains unread.
I tend to make very clear statements. I am not giving my opinion but rather explain the facts.
Such clear statements can be interpreted as rude but the intention is to be 100% clear, not rude.
Also, the 10T in the pension funds is a minimum, not a maximum.
It seems that nearly none of these funds is able to increase its holdings above 10T. This means that 10T is probably too high to be considered a minimum.
we will check the numbers and may drop the minimum and allow these funds drift to the "True" value. |
| Lorelei | Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 01:47 am
It's okay, Andrew. I knew this was probably the case, but like I said sometimes being clear and concise can come across that way and seem cold. I like warm and fuzzy. :-) But thank you for your words. I hope I didn't offend you, it wasn't my intention to do so.
Please ban Crafty! He's mean to me. I'm sure there is a Simcountry rule somewhere that states Do Not Be Mean to Lorelei. :P
Lastly, thank you for your time and commitment to the game. And if you ever need suggestions on who to ban, just give me a shout. I have a list for that too!!!! ha ha ha j/k |
| Andy | Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 08:41 am
I think I should ban both of you.
I think of it every day.
one day I decide to ban
the next day I decide not to.
today is your good day. |
| Unholy Hellraiser | Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 09:32 am
Now i know. The rules still do apply, thank you. I'll keep my slate clean from now on and all possible.
Thanks. |
| Drew | Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 09:50 am
Well now I have multiple corps making well over a billion brocolli, I'm still not happy about it but its the way the cookie crumbles I guess. |
| Drew | Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 10:10 am
Oh and mizore the contributions from the public effect much more then pension or IF funds, the biggest and most important are the income tax, contributions to health and education.
But on Andy's note of them not needing to pay any interest is a little peculiar. If they don't that is absolutely zero purpose. The only disbursement anyone gets is the tiny amount they get from IF's is through the investment. If it didn't exist then all sense of profit would be redistributing back into a non-functioning IF. So everytime that is lowered you are shrinking the use of IF's farther and farther. This is contridicting to all your other efforts to make them useful. I was looking forward to IF improvements since I started but now they don't even matter, like at all! In fact as the game made me destroy my strategy I had to either change corporate tax rate or profit transfer, and though I'm against both of those things moreso corporate tax I couldn't justify handing profits over to the IF. Fundamentally flawed game mechanics on this one.
I also don't fully agree with the concept of a small market either. When you consider there is exactly 0 real life companies with a market value of 1T dollars, and exactly 0 companies with a market value anywhere near 1T dollars while SC has tons of them and are triple that. Small market? That's confusing |
| Mizore | Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 10:57 am
Quote:Oh and mizore the contributions from the public effect much more then pension or IF funds, the biggest and most important are the income tax, contributions to health and education.
-_- I know that. I was illustrating why IFs aren't all that relevant in determining salaries anymore... I had already granted that tax/health/edu contributions were the big consideration (and even implied that these contributions were the core of what made the IF contributions eventually pay off).
For the other part of your post, there is little point in arguing. Andy laid it out: they don't intend the IF to be used as a mechanism for improving worker income anymore and as a result they are removing the functionality that allows this. Given what I've seen, they have for sure already reduced the IF interest rate from 0.48% to 0.04% and may have reduced contributions to the IF.
The whole thing is probably in response to that nearly $1Q IF on LU and other similar funds. |
| Mizore | Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 12:06 pm
Quote:So everytime that is lowered you are shrinking the abuse of IF's farther and farther.
Fixed. Consider the management's perspective, Drew. |
| sbroccoli | Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 02:10 pm
But Drew, you run an enterprise, right? Not a nation? |
| Unholy Hellraiser | Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 02:27 pm
why the hell did i say that... lol, no one gives a f.u.c.k about it. why do i even respond. perhaps Andy should ban me instead. |
| Lorelei | Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 03:42 pm
Andrew!!!! Well I'm glad today is my good day! :P But, if you ban me that is in direct violation of Simcountry Rule 1.A.A.1 which clearly states, under no circumstances is anyone in Simcountry to be mean to Lorelei. ha ha ha
Happy Weekend and get some rest, you will need it next week to keep me in line in da forums! Oh and Crafty too. He's way "badder" than I!!! :P |
| Lorelei | Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 03:43 pm
*Smacks Crafty
It' your fault, old man! You gettin' me in trouble. SCOWL!!! You just wait! |
| Lorelei | Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 05:01 pm
@ Unholy Hellraiser......... maybe the devil made you do it as to your question "why the hell did i say that". ha ha ha ha
I care what you say. You want me to throw a shoe at you, I will. It's way better than a banning! :P |
| Unholy Hellraiser | Friday, October 12, 2012 - 04:45 am
Yes please, throw me one! It needs a good bonk in the head. |
| Drew | Friday, October 12, 2012 - 05:37 am
I run both brocolli, I needed it to progress my game level. |
| sbroccoli | Friday, October 12, 2012 - 09:24 am
So you can in fact run a nations state corporations with a steady profit of 2B?
Please tell more about the circumstances and settings. |
| Lorelei | Friday, October 12, 2012 - 04:46 pm
*throws a shoe at Hellboy!!! THUNK!!!! There ya go! :-) |
| Drew | Friday, October 12, 2012 - 07:44 pm
Well I have closer to 1.5 not two. Scarlet I mean Mizore made an awesome graph to help you make 2B.
But if you want to make some cash. Build a Air Transport corp, sell shares down to 24.99. Build country welfare to 125. Contract out Aircraft Fuel, Electric Power, FMU's, Luxury Goods, HHP's at Q120. Change all else to 200~ you may have to tinker it after. Math supports 230 but that seems too high. Run salaries in the 500 range and Boom! 1.5B easy as pie. |
| sbroccoli | Friday, October 12, 2012 - 08:43 pm
Nice to know. Too bad i cant build half of those corporations |
