| lorditsyu | Sunday, August 5, 2012 - 09:47 pm 
It's been reported that there's 7 dead, counting the gunman.
I've been hearing that this gunman is racist and thought the Sikh Temple was actually a mosque for Muslims and thought it was a Ramadan Celebration going on. Until, a Sikh told him they weren't muslims, he must have killed himself then. (Unconfirmed reports)
What's your take on this? About the gun law, criminals will always find a way to get a gun, remember the Hollywood shootout in the 90's? Those guns were illegal, but criminals will always try to find a way to obtain it, like smuggle it through mexico. |
| Drew | Monday, August 6, 2012 - 04:56 am
Get rid of guns! I have dozens of friends from oak creek so that really angered me, luckily no one I knew was there |
| keithlj1218 | Monday, August 6, 2012 - 05:20 am
Actually he was killed by a second cop after he ambushed one that was helping a victim outside the temple. I've lived in WI my whole life, albeit on the other side of the state, but this does NOT reflect on the rest of us. It doesn't matter whether a thousand gun laws are passed or there's none at all on the books, crazy people will always find a way to do senseless acts of mass violence like this unfortunately. |
| Tom Morgan | Monday, August 6, 2012 - 01:27 pm
Can't wait for the gun-nuts to flood this thread with "If someone had had a gun in the Mosque, then this wouldn't have happened!"
For pete's sake, get rid of the guns! |
| Lorelei | Monday, August 6, 2012 - 08:36 pm
Dun tick off this gun totin' Mama, Tom. Jannie's got a gun. :-P (j/k) I'm a firm believer in a person's right to own a gun for self protection. There will always be hoodlums who will find guns and do these horrendous acts whether there is a gun law in place or not. I'm tellin' ya, if more Moms would make their kids cut their hair (like Drew above) and enforce rules at home, we wouldn't have these wacko kids in our country going out and shooting up theatres, mosques, whatever. It is a failure in our society and in the home, not because guns exist. Duh!
Sowwy Drew...I'm teasing you before you start whining and calling me a fascist. lol |
| keithlj1218 | Tuesday, August 7, 2012 - 03:41 am
I understand the anti gun argument, truly I do, and I don't demean or put anyone down for having that view. I am an avid sportsman, and love the outdoors, especially hunting. I've handled guns since I was a kid, and was taught the incredible mantle of responsibility that came with the right to own/operate a weapon of potentially deadly power. The only point I was trying to make is that even if you were able to outlaw all firearms and make them unavailable to the general public theoretically, somehow immoral people would be able to get a hold of them i.e. criminals. It's really no different than the argument to keep drugs illegal or to legalize them when you think about it. I think it all comes down to two things really:
1. It's plainly obvious that somehow this maniac was able to get deadly weapons that he should never have been able to get in the first place. I truly don't think that taking away rights for all to deny it to an immoral few is the correct course. Obviously there will always be disagreements on this issue.
2. I'm willing to bet my home and all my money that even if any new gun control laws were proposed, the NRA would flex its political muscle and every politican who sponsored it would run for cover. With that said, I doubt that any new laws will get proposed out of this.
By the way Drew, are you from WI or IL by any chance if you knew ppl from there? |
| Drew | Tuesday, August 7, 2012 - 06:49 am
IL but I went to school in WI |
| Alexandrov Stolin | Tuesday, August 7, 2012 - 07:36 am
plus one lorelei |
| Elliot1265 | Tuesday, August 7, 2012 - 07:11 pm
why do people only want to get rid of things that mean nothing to them (guns).lets close the bars and pubs where people won't have to drink and drive.as i have stated before drinking and driving kills and injures more people than guns but i guess no one will jump on this band wagon. |
| Laguna | Tuesday, August 7, 2012 - 08:05 pm
Yes, I agree, let us ban books!, because I just killed a mouse with one and books obviously serve no other purpose beyond killing mice.
Don't equate weapons, objects made with the intent to kill and harm, with objects made and quite clearly used for other more benign purposes.
In fact, I see it as more of a case of probability than of intent. One is more likely to kill with intent recurring to a gun, than he is to kill with a car. One is more likely to kill with a knife in cases of insanity or self-protection than with a gun. |
| Crafty | Wednesday, August 8, 2012 - 06:46 pm
@ Elliot, no one will jump on the drink driving band wagon? Are you sure? Come out from under that rock.
@Kieth, you have a reasoned outlook except for one gist of your arguement. You sort of equate the arguements of gun control with drug control: Guns should be allowed in the public domain as there will always be the odd nutter regardless, well how about drugs then? I would reckon most all dope smokers go about their highs without bothering anyone, only the odd person suffers some psychosis from it and injures/kills another person. So why is cannabis outlawed but guns aren't then?
I know, now people are saying "ooo, but pot leads to stronger things...", hmm, well my childhood love of a .177 air rifle made me more interested in better guns. I even got to training with a full automatic as a naval cadet. And there are lot, a LOT, of people around who use cocaine socially, bet any of you know at least two. I've even known people use Heroin socially, with no more side effects than drinking. Of course now we're getting into a strong self control issue, and the topic is not about drugs but weapons anyway. |
| keithlj1218 | Thursday, August 9, 2012 - 02:19 am
@Crafty, I have to agree with your point. To be honest I really don't know why cannabis is illegal and all sorts of firearms are allowed. I own plenty of guns and try to go to the range once a month, but I figure as long as I'm being responsible and no one is getting hurt, then it should be all good. The only thing I was trying to get across is that it makes no sense to outlaw something for all simply because of a few people have absolutely no self restraint/sanity. |
| Kasper Quinn | Thursday, August 9, 2012 - 03:08 am
Mr Tom Morgan is a perfect example of my scare a thon theory. He says I cant wait for the gun nuts to jump on this thread, but has his own opinions hes getting across his self. Blame someone for wanting to make a point before they even have a chance then he does exactly what hes complaining about someone else doing " Get rid of the guns! "
Scare a Thon
-------------------
Within hours of the tragic shooting in Aurora, Colorado at a screening of the new Batman movie, the political machine is already gearing up to exploit the incident as a tool to demonize the second amendment and characterize Americans who are against big government as extremists. Now every uninformed idiot who thinks everything is as it seems is screaming get rid of the guns. This was the agenda all along, only instead of saying we want to take away your guns to make you our slaves ultimately, we want you to beleive its what you want so you dont catch on until its too late.
If anything is to blame for the recent shootings, its death obcessed culture, not guns. Thats of course if this illuminati shit isnt real at all. These guys are probally victims themselves of MK Ultra. Do research cus its not near as outlandish as it sounds. Its perfectly possible. Look at soldiers who come home and are perfectly normal until something triggers them off and they start thinking theres damn bombs dropping and there back in Iraq. The brain is a very complicated thing. And mind control isnt at all IMPOSSIBLE. |
| Tom Morgan | Thursday, August 9, 2012 - 01:02 pm
" Mr Tom Morgan is a perfect example of my scare a thon theory. He says I cant wait for the gun nuts to jump on this thread, but has his own opinions hes getting across his self. Blame someone for wanting to make a point before they even have a chance then he does exactly what hes complaining about someone else doing " Get rid of the guns! " "
And how is my """scare-a-thon""" any different from the politically powerful National Rifle Association using scare tactics to manipulate the truth?
You've been owned. Please take your seat.
" @Crafty, I have to agree with your point. To be honest I really don't know why cannabis is illegal and all sorts of firearms are allowed. I own plenty of guns and try to go to the range once a month, but I figure as long as I'm being responsible and no one is getting hurt, then it should be all good. The only thing I was trying to get across is that it makes no sense to outlaw something for all simply because of a few people have absolutely no self restraint/sanity."
Legalising weed? No thanks- I enjoy my country's standard of living. |
| Kasper Quinn | Thursday, August 9, 2012 - 01:54 pm
I havent seen them maniuplate the truth. Exactly what are you talking about? I see alot of post from many angles and i think alot of these points are just false incorrect statistics that people manipulate to their advantage. They say guns are legal and they support the 2nd ammendment. Thats a stance not an argument. |
| Elliot1265 | Thursday, August 9, 2012 - 02:58 pm
laguna,is leaving a bar drunk and driving a benign act?i think not.it kills and injures many more people than guns.and what others things are bars and pubs made for?you have to go home and when you get in that car and drive,you become a danger.i don't think that is benign.if you are truly concerned about numbers of people killed they are much more dangerous than guns.if you just want to gripe about guns then that is your right. |
| Kasper Quinn | Thursday, August 9, 2012 - 03:23 pm
Exactly, cars and alchohol kills WAYYYYY more many people than guns. Like i said the chances of dying in a mass shooting is so low its bartely a blip on the radar. People just blow this shit up because its scary as hell. And because the media chooses to talk about it so much. You can make very good and valid points for both, the outlawing of guns or keeping them. But any idiot who says they will depend on goverment or police to protect them is just plain crazy their selves. The goverment is corrupt and so are police. Not all of them but alot are. So depending on others to do all the decision making and fighting is basically giving away your brain to think for your selves. My God what would the world be like if the goverment had 100% power. I guess voting could be done away with, not like its doing much now since everyone has a price and can be bought or threatened into decisions |
| Kasper Quinn | Thursday, August 9, 2012 - 03:25 pm
And the whole weed thing. One point. Why the hell are ciggarettes legal and weed isnt? They defintly kill more people than pot heads. If every person in the world smoked a blunt at the same time there would be world peace for two hours. |
| Drew | Thursday, August 9, 2012 - 10:09 pm
Cars are accidents, gun violence is intentional |
| Yankee | Thursday, August 9, 2012 - 11:15 pm
Driving while under the influence is a choice not an accident.
Since there is no such thing as a "true" motor vehicle accident, by which I mean a there are always multiple factors involved any of which, had either driver removed, would have prevented a collision, driving under the influence is intentional. |
| Drew | Thursday, August 9, 2012 - 11:45 pm
The outcome is intentional. It is a risk, most drunk drivers think they're damn good drunk drivers. There is no intent of killing people. |
| Kasper Quinn | Thursday, August 9, 2012 - 11:48 pm
When as many people are killed in Mass shootings as car accidents then i will reconsider my stance. In a perfect world guns wouldnt be needed. Not by police or Military. For the people who say only cops should have guns...if the citizens dont have any guns of their own then why the hell woulod cops need them? Cops are supposed to be physically fit and trained for hand to hand combat, if no ones shooting at them then why do they need the power to shoot someone else? Unless their scared they'll get their ass kicked in which case thats their own fault. Killing someone to avoid a black eye is cowardly as hell. |
| Yankee | Friday, August 10, 2012 - 12:43 am
You could be right there, I've never killed anyone I didn't intend to.
Then again I don't drink and drive for that reason. Knowing the risk and then deciding it's not a factor is worse IMHO. |
| keithlj1218 | Friday, August 10, 2012 - 02:24 am
Tom, all I was trying to do was make a comparison. If you think about it from the gun control perspective, guns have killed FAR more people than weed or any of it's side effects. I don't smoke the stuff and never will, but I don't judge someone that chooses to. I just respectfully disagree with the notion that if all guns were outlawed that somehow all the crime and violence in the world would plummet to almost nothing. Why is it wrong for me to own firearms to use for hunting and competition shooting? I only ask because I don't degrade anyone else for their interests or hobbies. |
| Alexandrov Stolin | Friday, August 10, 2012 - 10:52 pm
tom Morgan many country's have legalized weed and enjoy far higher standards of living then those that have not I laugh at your post
the US was born by patriots who weren't willing to sacrifice freedom for security and the people who are willing to sacrifice a very important freedom for MAYBE more security (probably not) will be the downfall of the US FUCK YOU!!!! |
| Tom Morgan | Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 05:49 am
I'm sensing much anti-Tom Morgan sentiment in this thread. I might go blow some stuff houses up. Then they'll like me  |
| keithlj1218 | Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 07:03 pm
@Tom Morgan, I have nothing against you. I'm just wondering why you think it's wrong for me to own firearms that I use for hunting and recreation. I don't hold it against you for not liking guns. |
| Crafty | Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 08:29 pm
Why would you want to hunt animals anyway? Got some kind of weird blood lust? Or do you just like those big assed dead animal heads sticking out of your wall? Sounds like a potential terrorist to me.
Oh... you shoot rats, thats pest control, not hunting. Oh... you eat all you kill, what, you dont like farmed meat?
Heh, just thought I'ld outrage the hunting fraternity, thread is getting a bit thin |
| Alexandrov Stolin | Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 08:33 pm
lol I personally can see some enjoyment in it it is a sport good for the soul..id get bored of it eventually though but target practice...never |
| Kasper Quinn | Sunday, August 12, 2012 - 12:56 am
I've never been hunting. To be a thug i have a pretty big soft spot for animals. But a shit load of people here in Bama do hunt. I think its crazy but i gotta get sum Deer Jerky some way, so more power to em.
I do enjoy shooting creepy little snakes. Freakin bastards! |
| keithlj1218 | Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - 04:21 am
Why would I hunt Crafty? For the sport of it. Sure, its fun target shooting, but a live animal is far more of a challenge whether its wild hog, deer, turkey, or bear. And yes for the weird bloodlust lol. And yes the heads on the wall DO look badass! And since I grew up on a farm, I can tell you that even though I like a big ol' steak just as much as the next guy. However, wild meat seems to have more flavor to it, or it could just be me lol.
To get back on topic however, I am interested that a classic model of a progressive/liberal such as Tom wasn't able to answer my questions at all. That's kind of the way it is in USA politics, conservatives bring facts backed up by science and logic to a debate and all liberals can do is insult and make nonsensical arguments that have nothing to do with the original point. Typical. |
