| nix001 | Friday, April 20, 2012 - 06:18 pm 
I've been sitting here looking at my main (Mother Nature Cryz) making just 15B a month when it should have been making 150B (If I understand what is going on with the number reduction of numbers) thinking ok still making profit. A lot closer to -1B but still a profit which is acceptable.
At the same time....Doh......I have been looking at a slave (Mother Natures SOS) at -5B thinking all is well not far from 1B. Then it hit me.........Mother Natures SOS without the reduction in numbers would be running at -50B a month. Not acceptable.
Dam I thought all was well but its not. Hate it when that happens  |
| NiAi | Friday, April 20, 2012 - 06:24 pm
Yeah
Just realised that one of my oldest (and ignored) countries has reverted to 3rd world status somehow, it lost all teachers and medical personnel, it must been one helluva retirement bomb hidden there (if it wasent a bug...).
All is not well |
| nix001 | Friday, April 20, 2012 - 06:25 pm
And if I have got my understanding on this number reduction effort 'nfe' wrong then WTF's going on with Mother Nature Cryz? Please have a quick gander. I don't want to know whats wrong with her if it's something that I'm doing. I will work that out myself ;) I just need to know that it is me and not something else cus those numbers are crazy. (If my understanding is wrong about this nfe) |
| Inanna | Friday, April 20, 2012 - 06:26 pm
To hear Andy tell it it is all my fault. I reduced salaries to 100 and all supply values to 120 and therefore I have hidden a bomb in my countries. So players need to "watch out". Wow
This guy is real stand up.... |
| Andy | Friday, April 20, 2012 - 06:29 pm
Whatever I am...
You did change the salaries and qualities and your corporations are going all the way down to much lower values.
selling this problem it to another player is unfair. |
| nix001 | Friday, April 20, 2012 - 07:42 pm
This was just a thought. Nothing more. It was my confusion that led me to my dissapointment. A lack of understanding to what I was looking at. But reduction in costs, was and still is a main thought. It feels like being in a vice. And trust I know what thats like |
| Andy | Friday, April 20, 2012 - 09:35 pm
Nix,
should we really go into it?
the enterprise should make big losses, instead it sometimes make some profit.
the welfare index in both enterprises is extremely low.
One is on FB with many corporations residing in countries in an empire of 35+ countries. welfare will never get very high. Government cost is probably sky high in all these countries.
the other is in LU and I looked into one country where social security was at 40- and this is already enough to drags the welfare index down. This is a very easy fix.
you should get your welfare index up to 120 and both your countries and enterprises will improve. The enterprises will become profitable and stable. I don't think it is possible for the large empire on FB.
We have looked into it before and we made an effort to get you out of this.
I will not get into details.
I don't think you should be blaming us for the condition of your empires. |
| nix001 | Friday, April 20, 2012 - 09:59 pm
Hi Andy. Mother Nature Cryz on LU is a country which got to No1 not to long ago. Forget about FB. I know my enterprise on FB looses shed loads due to the amount of ammo corps (which I hope will soon make money but I'm not holding my breath). Plus most corps are out of my empire? And I'm not really worried about my enterprise on LU (even though it used to break even and now its not). Its Mother Nature Cryz.
The country on LU you probably looked at was a new one. Either Mother Natures Army, Mother Natures SOS or Mother Natures Dying. Have a look at Mother Nature Cryz as that one I got to No1 spot and into the hall of FAME 
And again. I know you have been taking a bash, but read my posts again without suspicion and I think you will see what I'm saying. |
| Andy | Friday, April 20, 2012 - 10:05 pm
There is no suspicion what so ever.
I am looking to find problems, this is why I look into countries. If people complain, we try to check and see where the problem is.
many of my remarks in the past days are the result of what I saw in countries and enterprises.
we are also running many and we see what happens.
Before I look, please look yourself.
check quality of raw materials in the corporations
check the welfare indexes in the countries and corporations
salaries and sale strategy (at quality or under).
If all this is OK, let me know specifically where it is and I will have another look. |
| nix001 | Friday, April 20, 2012 - 10:10 pm
I know mate. As I said I can work it out. Have been wondering if the quality upgrade was starting to make a big enough difference to the game to include it into my game strategy. I'm not complaining mate just asking if I understand this number reduction effort and telling you how I had taken it into concideration with one country and not another. Which is me telling you all how dumb I was and thats it bro.
Peace&Hardcore..............Nix001
Mother Nature Cryz
Anyways thanks for replying and taking interest. I know it must be hard work being on the front line.
Respect. |
| Andy | Friday, April 20, 2012 - 10:33 pm
I do not understand exactly what you mean.
quality is very important in the game now and we think it should be added as a factor in the welfare of the country and to the conditions that allow you to move to higher levels.
as of now, in a fully upgraded corporation, raw material quality up to 160 or even 180 for raw materials in corporations, has a strong influence on the resulting quality of the products the corporation is producing and within the range of quality that will be paid for in the market.
If you buy much higher quality, tour products will have a very high quality and you will not get the full price.
so it will influence the revenue of the corporation if you put your numbers right. (quality and sales strategy.) |
| nix001 | Friday, April 20, 2012 - 10:42 pm
I know mate. I've been testing it out on my space programme and weapons programme where I was prepared to take losses if it does not work. I just wasn't ready to implement it across the board. It wasn't that long ago where it wasn't a factor. But now I know it truly does matter I will include quality to my strategy.
Thanks.
Still. My main thought was about the confusion about what I was actually losing now billions are worth more. -5B not so long ago was nothing. Now -5B is a big loss. Get what I'm saying? |
| Keto | Friday, April 20, 2012 - 11:01 pm
Andy what is the purpose of buying high Q products for our corporations when all players are buying low Q products? |
| Andy | Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 12:34 am
you can sell products currently at high quality.
The corporations that tried to get a price higher than expected by their quality are having difficulties. |
| Kolenski | Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 01:31 am
Bingo Keto. Producing high quality products then offering them right from the get go at a lower quality price makes as much sense as me offering to buy your dollars for $1.10 each. If high quality products won't sell then what is really being said is supplies should be bought at lower quality, thus producing lower quality products. I am still able to sell pretty much everything at (or usually above) the quality price but I don't know if "adjustments" are made at the time of sale via the game algorithms or how long I will be able to continue at that price given more updates.
That said, I will adjust as needed. |
| SuperSoldierRCP | Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 05:08 am
I agree Kolenski
Since we finding awesome new "FUN" things each updates lets expedite the process.
we could introduce 140Q being the new base.
remember
140Q is the new 120Q.
Forcing players to buy 140 means they spend more pushing and forcing high Q on them.... I see no issues here |
| Andy | Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 10:22 am
Funny.
read my comments on this in another discussion, just minutes ago. |
| Crafty | Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 09:26 pm
If we all started buying low Q products for corps then the average output Q will be lower, yes?
Andy says clearly that higher Q product(he even gives optimum buying Qs) will still sell with the right trade strategy.
So you should get your head out of the sand and still use highish Q materials, creating a greater demand for higher Q, and establishing a richer economy. Remember, its not just the materials you are buying, its also the products that everyone else is buying, some of which your corps will be supplying.
On an aside, a greater influence, and I mean a proper influence whereby it becomes strategically very important, a greater influence on welfare by buying population supplies of higher Q would help immensely. Of course, this is not something we can influence. |
| Redman | Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 09:56 pm
Buying the higher quality materials for your corps gets the greatest quality of goods produced from that corp. The higher quality goods produced raises the base market price for those goods. As long as we keep the trade strategy at or just a pinch above that higher quality now being produced we stand to make more money. It is when we jack the price up for those higher quality goods that we get dropped in the "selling Que".
This is where I have my beef. It is ridiculous for companies to be penalized for high trade strategies which is what you are doing by dropping corps in the selling que the higher we raise our prices over quality being produced. It is ludicrous to think a company can not sell for more then 5 points over quality without being penalized for it. Putting every company in the game in the same basket does not sound fun nor profitable to me.
Did you ever stop to think why the players started buying lower quality goods in the first place? To save shrinking profit. They very thing you have done to prevent high numbers is forcing players to destroy the economy. This is a gm caused phenom in the first place. Then you try to blame the players for buying lower quality goods when you forced this on us in the first place.
Now quality is mattering less and less in the game and it is not making sense to strive for high quality goods if we can not sell them as such. Then you have a bland and very generic model for corps that drives the economy into the basement, so please do not tell us that we caused this.
We are simply trying to make profit and it will get to the point where we all will have to have the 40k plus corps in each world right at Quality to make any profit at all. Any wondering will cause issues. Why play if everyone is forced to use the same trade strategy? What fun is that? What sets me apart from player X? Nothing that's what. Everyone setting to quality is as generic as it comes and that's where you are forcing us to go.
Regards
Redman |
| Andy | Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 10:29 pm
Redman,
this is not what is going to happen. profitability is getting there as we expected when the stocks of raw materials had been replaced, and profitability will remain or everything will bankrupt. I know you don't necessarily believe me but profitability of corporations is in the center of the entire game. There are many nuances here, and opinions, and levels etc. but profitability is essential.
one error we need to fix here: the base price is independent of quality.
the real price is the market price x quality that is realized in the transaction.
Price above quality is too expensive under all conditions.
if market price is 100 and quality is 150 why should I pay 160? shortages cause the market price to increase enough.
Our problem is that if you buy the current produced quality as raw materials, your corporation is producing at high quality but it will do the same with raw materials that are of lower quality.
This is the problem and it needs to be solved and we are doing just that, only it will take time.
Read my comments from this morning about the same in the other discussion on the forum.
Currently, raw materials up to Q170 or 180 make sense even with a fully upgraded corporation.
if the corporation is not fully upgrade on quality, even higher quality makes sense.
Once Q250 will make sense, we will be close to a solution.
Crafty got it about right.
we should be buying higher quality and it will do good for everyone only currently, feeding fully upgraded corporations with Q>180 is not helping them and they pay too much for their raw materials. |
| Redman | Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 11:06 pm
Thank you.
One hole I see with crafety's plea here is that Countries are making less and less profit these days. They are certainly not going to raise buying strategy to over 120 quality, shrinking profit even more and not helping a thing. This leaves only corps to do the work. Most corps are c3's. What are the C3 corps buying materials at? I certainly can't raise their buying supply strategy. We can set our own supply quality to 170 and 175 and most probably already do. Now what?
I have set my supply buying to 170. I have a 280 quality product. Who is buying 280 quality Beef or high tech? Who is buying 280 quality Oil in the first place? What does it matter if I sell my 280 quality oil at 15 points higher then quality if no one is buying at 280 in the first place?
It doesn't make sense that I can sell my 280 quality oil at base 280 quality price if no one is out there buying it does it? So if it is being bought to begin with then why can't it be bought at 15 points over quality? Do you see what I am saying?
To me, anything over 170ish quality shouldn't have any buyers according to what you are saying. Only weapons and ammo. And yet they make the least amount of money. Are you telling me that C3's are buying our high quality (over 180) goods? How in the world are my 300 and greater quality goods selling then? Who is actually buying them.
Do you see? Things do not make sense here. And a cap is being placed on high trade strategies for high quality goods that should never be sold to no existent buyers in the first place. So what difference does it make if I sell higher? This is why I am saying Quality is not mattering much anymore over 170.
So you ARE forcing us to sell quality over 200 at the same prices since you are capping the allowable profit we can make to products that should have no buyers in the first place. |
| Andy | Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 11:41 pm
I do not think you understand my answer. please read again.
At this point you are selling at 280.
This is what I just said.
buying up to 170 or 180 makes sense. Your profit will increase. many do just that.
buying at 120, cuts your cost of raw materials and cuts your revenue much more.
your profits will decline. |
| nix001 | Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 11:56 pm
promise the gain out ways the cost? |
| nix001 | Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 11:57 pm
|
