| Psycho_Honey (Little Upsilon) | Sunday, February 19, 2012 - 06:41 am 
On Behalf Of Lorelei I present the following Challenge to the player known as Wildeyes.
<lorelei> I would like to issue a challenge to the player who calls herself "WildEyes". WildEyes is continuously stating that she is the best econ player in the game and has killed lots and lots of people throughout her Sim career. I thereby challenge WildEyes to prove her gaming skills to the Sim Community by obtaining game Level 15, which is the highest level obtained by a simcountry player (Blueserpent). If WildEyes is as skilled in war and econ as she claims, then I see this as an easy challenge for her. As the best player, as she claims to be, she should be able to achieve this level easily. WildEyes, you have 6 MONTHS from February 19 to achieve this. I will see you in 6 MONTHS. :-) |
| Scarlet (Fearless Blue) | Wednesday, March 21, 2012 - 12:47 am
Not the same skill set. Obtaining game levels doesn't mean you're good at war and econ, it means you're good at obtaining game levels. |
| Inanna (Little Upsilon) | Wednesday, March 21, 2012 - 04:39 am
Quote:Not the same skill set. Obtaining game levels doesn't mean you're good at war and econ, it means you're good at obtaining game levels.
Says the n00b who restarts every 90-120 days to live off of game level rewards...lmao |
| Scarlet (Fearless Blue) | Wednesday, March 21, 2012 - 05:15 am
*shrugs*
I'm flattered you'd go out of your way to establish my credibility and concede the argument. |
| Inanna (Fearless Blue) | Wednesday, March 21, 2012 - 05:29 am
You proved the point that you have no game skill at all. You are only good at quitting after the free ride when the game level awards cease to fund your counterfeit empires.
How can a person, who has no skill other than pressing reset to get a GM welfare subsidy to support his game play, Criticize someone who has exerted a ton of time and effort to achieve the highest game levels the game offers?
If I were Laguna I'd throw rocks at you for even attempting to belittle any player for doing something you could not do even if you tried. |
| Scarlet (Fearless Blue) | Wednesday, March 21, 2012 - 05:36 am
Pointing out the fact that those are different skill sets =/= belittling. I'm just saying that skill in ceramics doesn't equal skill at shooting clay pigeons. |
| Inanna (Fearless Blue) | Wednesday, March 21, 2012 - 05:42 am
You were saying that ceramics and clay shooting have nothing to do with simCountry? Oooh....
Cuz if you weren't I don't think you made a point at all in that post. |
| Scarlet (Fearless Blue) | Wednesday, March 21, 2012 - 05:43 am
K. |
| Tom Morgan (Kebir Blue) | Wednesday, March 21, 2012 - 07:16 am
O.o |
| Blueserpent | Wednesday, March 21, 2012 - 10:11 am
Isnt lvl 15 a skill of balancing ECON and an army at extremely high indexes? You try it,Scarlet 
and i cant war?
Hey Wendy |
| Scarlet (Little Upsilon) | Wednesday, March 21, 2012 - 12:06 pm
*facepalm* |
| Laguna | Thursday, March 22, 2012 - 12:04 am
Quote:Not the same skill set. Obtaining game levels doesn't mean you're good at war and econ, it means you're good at obtaining game levels.
I call for a Venn diagram. |
| Laguna | Thursday, March 22, 2012 - 12:10 am
Out of curiosity, is Lorelei blocked from the forum? |
| Inanna (Golden Rainbow) | Thursday, March 22, 2012 - 07:39 am
I don't think so. At the time, she didn't have an active account or something like that.
And HI LG! Where in the heck have you been? |
| Laguna | Thursday, March 22, 2012 - 08:09 pm
Ah, I see what happened.
Today I went biking to the woods. Now I'm playing chess. Tomorrow I'll be in a race.
In the meantime, I have to make use of my meager econometric skills to do some research about Okun's Law in Portugal. |
| Redman (Little Upsilon) | Saturday, March 24, 2012 - 03:40 am
Lorelei said her goodbyes and she left the game chat and forums because (or in protest) of a certain player elevated to a certain status. |
| xiong | Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 02:06 am
some players actually reach level 15?
they need to share with us newbees, much much love |
| Jo Salkilld | Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 02:10 am
The level requirements tell you exactly what you need to work on to go up to the next level. Follow them up and eventually you should be able to get to level 15.
Population is the key, followed by paying a lot of attention to your worker balance in every country. Having your own enterprise(s) makes a big difference, learning to IPO-transfer corps and not holding a large military in more than 10-20% of your countries.
Hugs and respect
Jo |
| Phoenix King | Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 08:11 am
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| Spiderman | Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 10:52 pm
xiong, you are no more a newbee than i am, much much love |
| Marshal Ney | Monday, June 18, 2012 - 01:05 am
Jo,
Not keeping a large military in each country - couldn't that be balanced out with the industrial mix by country?
Much respect,
M. Ney |
| Jo Salkilld | Monday, June 18, 2012 - 01:17 am
Not sure what you mean Marshal ... can you explain a little more?
Hugs and respect
Jo |
| Marshal Ney | Monday, June 18, 2012 - 04:33 am
If you went with a high tech industry base in the country(s) in question, that would free up a lot more low level workers to put into your military. The more agricultural etc corporations you have the smaller your army has to become, in order to keep everything running smoothly. So if you manage to hit on the right mix (with of course the educational system/pop transfers to back it up) - wouldn't that obviate keeping a large standing army in only select countries?
I've always been of the opinion that in games like this, the military should be the maximum you can sustain. And then a bit more if possible.
Much respect,
M. Ney |
| xiong | Monday, June 18, 2012 - 05:49 am
this game would be easier if we knew the rules. there are too many grey areas.
for example, if you know the rules of playing chess or checkers...then everything else is base on your skills and experience.
but this game, i have little clues of what variables after what other variables. thus make it hard to do well. |
| Jo Salkilld | Monday, June 18, 2012 - 05:36 pm
Thanks for the clarification Marshal.
By the time you are getting to level 13 or so, you can't afford to have any unprofitable or low-profit corps in your country(ies), which includes corps that employ a lot of LLWs. But by that time, your education index is such that you don't produce a whole lot of LLWs, so worker balance is not a problem - you don't need to worry about finding employment for the LLWs either in the army or in corps, because you don't have that many unemployed.
You need a DI of 200 to reach level 15 and FI of 140, so you have a choice. You can put high-points-scoring (but pretty useless on their own) weapons in each country (MIBs or defensive radar planes), using the fewest workers, and gear the rest of the economy to making as much as possible to get your FI up. Or you can put all the same weapons in just one or two countries, which will have lower FIs, and leave the rest making as much money as possible to average it out. Either way, the result is pretty much the same.
If you want a war slave, however, with weapons that are actually some use (fully garrisoned and with an adequate offensive), you can only sustain that in around 10% of your empire. The other 90% of countries have to be purely econ in order to bring the average FI up to what you need for level 15. An effective war slave will be lucky to get its FI over 70, even with all its corps maximised, so the other countries have a lot of extra FI points to make up.
Xlong - the skill in this game is to build an understanding of which variables affect which other variables, just as it is in chess. With chess, the variables are the relative positions of the pieces and how they do or don't protect each other and form a good offensive position. With Simcountry, you aren't necessarily facing an opponent, so the variables are more internal. But the principle is the same. The fact that it is so complicated is what keeps most of us playing more than a few months
Hugs and respect
Jo |
| xiong | Tuesday, June 19, 2012 - 12:10 am
thank you jo,
i read the doc, but it does not cover everything. it doesn't specifically say that your education index depends on what other variables. i would like to know that education index depends on how many elementary schools, secondary schools, tertiary schools, nurses, doctors, engineers, etc....
then the corporations depend on those education variables, plus material availability and quality, type of workers, and so on.
then each of the defense and offense index depends on each number of weapon types, military forces, their locations, their quality, and so on.
this game is far from chess, for me. in chess, you know the capability of each of your pieces. in this game, i'm more like playing it by being blindfolded. ever try to walk from one location to the next, with your eyes/ears closed/covered? that's what i am in this game at this stage.
for example, no one told me that my military units will not be able to go thru my own fortication along my border, if i don't move them before declaring war? yes, i have one unit that does not seem to move at all and being stuck behind my own wall of fortications along my border with the c3 i'm going to war with. these are just the things they don't tell you ahead of time. learning by trials and errors, very time consuming and painful. |
| Jo Salkilld | Tuesday, June 19, 2012 - 01:18 am
That's what makes experience so crucial in this game, xlong. Trial and error. You can learn how each bit works in isolation from the docs, but the rest you have to figure out for yourself.
Sort of like chess - you can learn the moves that each piece can make, but only by playing can you learn how to use them together. And then there's the intuition part ... Kasparov didn't get to be world champion by repeating the sets of moves invented by other players. He was able to see how they worked together, through a lot of years playing, and maximise the infinite variables to a point where he could use them better than anyone else.
Every time you come across something where you don't understand how the two (or more) things interact, test them. Go through each permutation one at a time, note the results, then compare them. Yes, it takes time. If it didn't, we'd all be masters after a few months of playing, and get bored and go find something else. Instead, we spend years getting to know it, and enjoying the journey
Education index is finite. If you go to 'important things to do', it will tell you what index your schools, highschools and universities are at. The lowest of them will be the eventual education index of your country, although if you have been building recently it may take a few months to catch up. So if you need an education index of 120, schools and highschools are at 120, but unis are only at 100, then you need more unis to get your index up to 120.
If you look at how many schools / highschools / unis the game says you need, that will give you an index of 100. So if you need an index of 120, multiply the number it says you need by 1.2. If you have fewer than that, then subtract one from the other, and that is how many more you need to get to the required index.
Hope that helps!
Hugs and respect
Jo |
| Marshal Ney | Tuesday, June 19, 2012 - 03:52 am
Thanks for the clarification Jo. Still a building. DI of 570 and FI of 116. I'll have to do some readjusting - thank goodness I still need massive population and cash reserves to start hitting those upper levels, so should have the time to do so.
Much respect,
M. Ney |
| Jo Salkilld | Tuesday, June 19, 2012 - 04:31 am
FI is entirely dependent on population Marshal. It's down to income over expenditure, and they are both finite, unlike health, education and transport.
If you have more people, they will make more profit, and there is no incremental expenditure. Whereas with health, education and transport, if you have more people, they will need more schools, hospitals and roads, which will cost more, without related additional income.
DI is also finite. Each weapon you have gives you x additional points. So the more population you have, the more points they can sustain.
So ... yes ... to get to higher levels you need a certain level of population. I would guess at 70M+ ... average.
Hugs and respect
Jo |
| Rick | Tuesday, June 19, 2012 - 10:59 pm
Jo, you have this knack of conveying lots of clear, concise info in just a tiny bit of space.
When I get started I usually have to dump it because it turns into an epistle. |
| Jo Salkilld | Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - 12:46 am
Thanks Rick
Hugs and respect
Jo |
| xiong | Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - 12:53 am
jo,
what's the logic in that the more weapons/military stuffs you have, the higher your cost?
military seems to be treated as an expense, but yet you can sell or buy military services on the world market. in this case, it seems to be a revenues as well as an expenses. the guide/doc don't specifically tell you what it is, just said part of the "x group" which is useless to figure it out. |
| Marshal Ney | Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - 02:27 am
Xiong,
I believe Jo was referring to the cost of running military systems and units. You're paying not only for the upkeep - but also the salary levels. The latter is what's going to hurt me. If you sell the unit's necessary components (military services, supplies, gasoline, etc) then it becomes revenue. The expenses are salaries + supplies used - but I'm figuring just the salaries, as supplies are in your country consumption. Still be an expense, but in a different column of your budget. (and don't take that for gospel, I'm SWAGing that).
Jo, top level requires 150 million average (and 12 countries) for game level 16 on peaceful. 20 million less average on warlike. Going to be a long slog.
Much Respect,
M. Ney |
| Jo Salkilld | Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - 04:04 am
xlong - each weapon you have in a country has a number of ongoing costs associated with it.
Most weapons that use ammo, use it monthly for 'training'. So if you have some AAMBs, for example, you will be buying anti-aircraft missiles which get used up every month. You will also have to buy military supplies and gasoline / aircraft fuel which, although I don't think they count as 'military spending', are still a monthly expense which drags your FI down. Your FI is an equation of income over expenditure. The more you spend every month, the smaller the difference between the two and the lower your FI.
Secondly, as Marshal says, you have to pay the wages every month of the soldiers and officers who man that weapon, whereas if they were employed by a CEO corp, the enterprise would pay the wages. Another extra expenditure item!
Lastly, because the soldiers and officers are employed in your army, they are not employed in a corp, so you have fewer corps in your country if you have weapons. Fewer corps = less income / profit = lower FI.
Peaceful mode is a LOT more difficult at the high levels, Marshal. Especially since the GMs reduced the DI requirements on non-peaceful mode. As long as there is an option to use war level OR Defensive Index to go up levels, non-peaceful mode is a lot easier - 9 countries and 100M population. DI of 300 and Defensive Index of 600 (which, if you are below WL3 and keeping weapons purely for the points, is the same thing). However, the option won't be there forever - the GMs are gradually phasing it out.
Nevertheless, you're right. Peaceful or non-peaceful, it is a long slog. Level 14 took me over a year, and level 15 has taken the same amount of time so far, although a lot of that has been due to slipping back regularly because of game engine changes. I've been within a couple of tenths of an FI point twice now, only to see it drop back again in response to a game update 
Hugs and respect
Jo |
