| SuperSoldierRCP (Little Upsilon) | Sunday, August 21, 2011 - 09:48 pm 
Population Size 9,373,501
Education Index 73.95
Health Index 56.52
Social Security 39.75
Employment Index 53.94
Transportation Index 50.16
Business and Trade Index 55.34
Finance Index 155.34
Budget 0.00B SC$
War Situation Index 100.00
Defense Index 8.49
Defensive Force Index 14.20
Offensive Force Index 4.66
Strategic Force Index 0.00
Welfare Index 109.75
Assets 6,266.28B SC$
Corporation Value 3,266.58B SC$
Taxes paid by Citizens 4,351.97M SC$
Health Contributions and Cost 1,666.25M SC$ 3,407.47M SC$
Education Contributions and Cost 803.05M SC$ 2,005.83M SC$
Interest on Outstanding Loans 0.00M SC$ 0.00M SC$
Taxes paid by Corporations 40,904.18M SC$
Profit paid by State Owned Corporations 0.00M SC$
Income from Enterprises 51,509.59M SC$
Social Security Payments 2,601.79M SC$
Transportation System 1,801.63M SC$
General Cost of Government 2,145.97M SC$
Total Defense Cost 5,153.08M SC$
Income from Dividend 0.00M SC$
Beginners Income Booster 49,305.56M SC$
Total Income and Cost 148,540.61M SC$ 17,115.78M SC$
Profit / Shortage 131,424.83M SC$
I understand helping new players but come on REALLY!?!?!
even if the state corp was 0 that's 80B a month and they get that for over 2month. That's way to much how does the GM expect use to loan? Why would they bother to learn anything. Sad they are really dumbing down this new generation of players |
| Green Paws (Little Upsilon) | Sunday, August 21, 2011 - 10:17 pm
New players take time to learn and by the time they do, they can be mired in debt so I agree with the financial support for newbies.
One cannot fully particpate in the game if one is a net borrower.
Enterprise income is high so plenty of corps must have based there, sperate to newbie support.
I also suggest the Corp Tax is a particularly good month and not normally that high. |
| Gothamloki (Little Upsilon) | Sunday, August 21, 2011 - 11:36 pm
Yeah, I've seen about three or four newbies popup around me and stop playing as soon as theyre into debt. I dont think they realize they can play through it. Maybe, the extra help is to keep them going a little longer until they figure things out better. Not a bad thing. |
| ZentrinoRisen (Little Upsilon) | Monday, August 22, 2011 - 07:03 am
The pop up that you get when you have negative cash for that month probably scares them away. It makes it sound like it is bad. I agree with the financial support. And the log in bonuses are good. I think they should only give cash/population at first though. Maybe toward the end of the beginner period they could give some weapons. |
| Garry Freeman (White Giant) | Monday, August 22, 2011 - 09:45 am
As a new player I would agree. In less than 1 month, I reached top 50 on White Giant. I received either 150B in readies, 300,000 population or a bundle of weapons every day for nearly 6 weeks. However, these have now stoppped and I am on my own. Still top 60 though but certain indexes are on the wain. I must say that I havent experienced the debt other new players have. My current Cash is 3.05T and all indexes looking good. Also, on my way to level 5. What I found really useful was to ask EXPERIANCED players already playing the game for help. The documentation for the game alos offers clues. Simples |
| Green Paws (Little Upsilon) | Monday, August 22, 2011 - 10:12 am
I agree with ZR, only pop and cash should be given. Weapons shouldn't be encouraged at the beginning. It should all be about the economy and growth at the beginning.
I also agree that the login bonuses are good to remotivate those to continue with a sophisticated game, not a beat 'em up and go. |
| Tom Willard | Monday, August 22, 2011 - 06:37 pm
The example is extreme.
If you look at the beginners help. it starts at 50B per game month and it declines each month. I think the total they get is 2.5T this is 13 GCs.
they also get population and they get 15 GCs to start with and several times 3 GCs more when they login.
We really don't want them to get into debt. This is a point when many leave.
we will shortly go even further, preventing debt by forcing a GC exchange each time cash goes under zero.
we plan to prompt the player on login and show the negative cash and allow for immediate, same screen, exchange of a gold coin into cash.
this may replace the cash donations as many noobs don't even know they get the money.
instead, there will be more gold coins and a manual exchange when they need cash.
this will make players aware of what they spend and the need to develop the economy and it will prevent loans and negative cash.
once experienced, they will be able to get loans.
is this a better way?
We in fact planned this feature for the coming weeks. |
| ZentrinoRisen (Little Upsilon) | Monday, August 22, 2011 - 07:01 pm
I think that is a good feature. It allows them to have GC to spend how they like if they are not going into debt also.
I still don't think weapons should be given. Or, if they are given, it should be one of the last things given toward the expiration of the beginner period. Maybe it could be some basic offense with an explanation of how that can be used to take a C3. |
| Green Paws (Little Upsilon) | Monday, August 22, 2011 - 07:22 pm
I think before offering coins while still below game level 3, a contact link to the Security Council members should come up first to request aid.
Once game level 3 has been reached, then force gold coin sales until newbie expiration. |
| Gringo (White Giant) | Monday, August 22, 2011 - 07:41 pm
Just read the information. It seems like all the basics are there. But of course the help in the beginning is nice. Why would anybody be opposed to newbie help? Maybe scared of competition! |
| Tom Willard | Monday, August 22, 2011 - 07:43 pm
After the initial setting, we do not give any weapons (maybe 1 at a time, a feature from the past, I will check).
They have gold coins from the start and get more from time to time when they login.
They should learn how to use them. |
| Tom Willard | Monday, August 22, 2011 - 07:45 pm
Many players used to ask us to give beginners more help. This is the first time they question it.
I think that most players want us to help beginners. |
| Green Paws (Little Upsilon) | Monday, August 22, 2011 - 08:20 pm
I can't see anybody questioning helping newbies, just how they're best helped.
In case of confusion, I didn't mean don't give new players coins, but they should be able to have easier access to aid from the Security Council.
Give them an easy link when in debt or a low balance to contact members of the Security Council to get some aid, which would be worth a lot to a newbie.
I support help newbies, and by getting them to contact the Security Council, they'll be meeting experienced players who they can then refer back to as well and get some footing in the game.
I was always happy to help new players and like many vets used to seek newbies out to help. |
| SuperSoldierRCP (Little Upsilon) | Monday, August 22, 2011 - 10:01 pm
Ive always supported news players. Very much so in fact i've written guides as well as helped founded/run/assisted most of the top new player teaching CM/Feds. Ive always said they should get more help but throwing more cash isn't helping anyone. You cant throw cash at them and expect them to do anything. Myself and Josais both passed polls that players on both sides agreed on. they where reducing military spending limits and making a guide to help them.
Giving them 5T here, Gold Coins there, More cash here, and some pop over there is WORTHLESS unless they know what to make of it. Lets face it the docs are outdated. Weapons docs need work. The games advice on most econ is wrong. Even the planets descriptions are false.
New players do the classic mistakes of buying a ton of weapons(using there cash/pop for military reasons) and trying to expand to early bankrupting them. Using Common markets( lets face it here there's no real reason for them other then score. At the moment why buy consumer goods from a buddy @ 296Q when 100Q does the same dam thing and its a lot cheaper?). Giving them protection now helps the get though the start but then they keep doing it thinking nothings wrong. Finally when the protections over they realize "Have i been doing this wrong" then its to late. They might have a 100+ CEO or a nation with a few dozen corps. Then they will tank fast because they where protected and didn't know what was happening
Where my frustration comes from is as hard as i work to teach and educate new players it means NOTHING if the GM add help that does nothing. A school wouldn't give students textbooks and materials from 1982 but give them laptops to learn it on. Both Josias and i said a guide to teaching news on how to take their first country would be a MASSIVE step forward. I've seen news war 2-3times before realizing that a city has garrisons in it (they thought the units on the map where garrisons). An instruction guide would be 100times more effective then throwing a ton of cash their way. I've never nor will i ever oppose supporting news. But the way the GM is going about it is my issue. How many news come into the chat/use the fourms? The GM wants they to be helped but they don't know how to get it
Online Users: 849
Members: 224
Visitors: 625
Countries in use: 10,660
I've NEVER seen more then 20people in the chat. The people i see are the same faces over n over. I see maybe 2 "3" news if i'm lucky a day in the chat. News have the starting cash, Have the Sec Con and have tons of teachers in the chat who give advice and free CASH just to help them build up. They have all the cash and assets they need giving them more will not do anything but what they really need is a modern textbook and a GM supported "School" on which to go.
"Learning to use the tools of modern warfare is the difference between the prospering of your people, and utter destruction. We can't give you freedom. But we can give you the know-how to acquire it. And that, my friends, is worth more than a whole army base of steel."
Comes from a game but you get the point |
| Josias (Fearless Blue) | Monday, August 22, 2011 - 10:46 pm
for clarifiation purposes, i'm for this newb help, and yes, i've put up polls, requesting guides and updated documentation. i'm not attached to super's opinion that newbs get to much help
once the game clicks, it is easy. but most new players are overwhelmed. and figuring out the right settings is difficult. giving them some extra cash while they figure things out... is apropo.
new players don't have to do "nothing," just because they have more help. thats silly. and infact, if you read part of the original post by super...
"That's way to much how does the GM expect use to loan?" -Super
that typo can be explained, but it almost reads like super is upset that their will be less loans taken out.
frankly, their is circle of players that only teach new players to play in such a way, that they will be subordinate to vets. not actually teaching them how to stand on their own. and build large empires. which is evident with super's poll trying to restrict newbs from buying weapons... and his reasoning then? that they take debt and quit, but now he wants them to take debt, because it forces them to work harder...
of course new players need to learn how to play econ. but coming into this game, many are looking for action, and at least some moderate early success. giving them some cash, weapons, and pop just might spark interest in them long enough for them to settle in and learn the rest of the game. rather than start taking sim classes
super, don't use smoke and mirrors to make it look like i agree with your position. considering that every one that pays attention, knows that we are nearly polar opposites. |
| Crafty (Golden Rainbow) | Monday, August 22, 2011 - 11:00 pm
Not everyone can or will be successful at Simcountry.
The complexity of the game is why I have stayed for so long. It makes SC unique, there is no instant gratification. Shoot 'em up type people cant prosper here.
I thoroughly support W3Cs efforts to get people going, on the grand scale of things, 2.5T in bonus is very little. But Tom can I add, please dont dumb the game down. There are lots of rubbish easy mmporpgs out there already.
New/updated docs are very overdue now W3C!!! |
