| jaypee (Golden Rainbow) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 12:09 am 
I have a bit of surplus cash in my country and I was thinking of issuing some loans out. Question: what risks will I be taking on if I do this? Is it possible for countries or corps to, under any circumstances, default on their loans? |
| Psycho_Honey (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 12:32 am
No, all loans are backed by 'gamemaster securities'. Players or corporations can never default on any loans. Your investment is secure.  |
| Urban337084 (Fearless Blue) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 12:35 am
I wish I have some extra cash to loan out |
| Crafty (Fearless Blue) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 11:01 am
There's only one issue I would give you a heads up about.
If all of sudden you get 10T+ loans paid back (early or when due) in one or two months, which does happen, and you dont check your cash balance and move the excess to your direct trading account you will get hammered by fees for having too much cash.
(unless I'm well out of date because this issue was raised with GM a long time ago) |
| Psycho_Honey | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 11:54 am
You are more than right CC, I often log in after only 24 hours gap to find upwards of 50 trillion in cash that has come back from loans. I would love to see the cash sweep feature added. I think W3c isn't too crazy about it as it will curb massive loan making. The amount of money given back through financial services is tantamount to robbery. I'm sure I've surrendered the profits from the loans back to financial services by at least a multiple of 5 many times over. Not sure how we can convince them to change this. Maybe if we tie tommi up and throw him in Laguna's Basement maybe the ransom 'feature' will be added. We'll have to see how much Jozi values tommi's companionship! |
| Parsifal (Kebir Blue) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 01:03 pm
i don't know what the threshold for cash on hand but it used to be 20t. if you keep less than that you don't get hit....i think. |
| NiAi | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 02:21 pm
Threshold nowadays is 14-15T cash for presidents.
Wendy is quite right, miss to deal with cash in the open for awhile, you will be hammered with fees that almost makes sms-loans looking nice. |
| Psycho_Honey (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 02:41 pm
If you have 300 Trillion loans lent out, and you don't log into LU for 24-36 hours, you get popped with 30-50 Trillion, and in a few game months, it wipes away what you've made and then some. I usually keep up with it, but the clicking gets boring I need a day away to not drive myself insane. |
| Accordion_This (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 03:22 pm
Wendy, how precisely do you make any decent amount of money with loans? As far as I can tell, the maximum you can loan out is $10T per country, and with a 10-country empire on LU that will earn you a paltry $8.16B a day.
Also, when are you sending those pics? You better not have sold mine... |
| Psycho_Honey (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 03:32 pm
*yawns* The days of your expertise are far behind you Matt. It's a new day, the old is far away.
My son, listen, and I shall teach you. Listen to Inanna, and her words will adorn you like a gold chain around your neck...
In my main alone I have over 300Trillion in loans out. So either you can't read, or haven't made any money to figure out all you have to do to loan out more than 10T is hit the button more than once(assuming your broke arse would ever get enough cash, \swipe your visa.).
There are no limits to the amount of loans you can give out. The amount of countries is irrelevant, kinda like you
Is this what they teach you all in the IDC? Useless.
And seriously little boy, you don't even know how to get/find basic information on loans, you wouldn't know what to do with my pics. You can ask for Wildeye's though, I hear she isn't stingy with hers. Naked too. |
| SuperSoldierRCP (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 06:03 pm
Matt lol a country can offer as much loans as possible. Its maximum loan amount to someone is 10T |
| Tom Willard | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 07:12 pm
Psyco Honey
he asked a question why not just give him an answer.
the amount is unlimited.
also, you don't need to put me away. not for such a minor crime. there are bigger ones you could punish me for.
Jozi and the other guys will come to save me anyway.
for most people, the amount of cash they want to loan out is not so big and the amount that can be paid back is also not so big and the financial services are not a problem. they kick in when you are quite rich.
also the total amounts of loans declined with the max countries can get in loans. currently 8 T.
so yes, some very rich players can get hit by the financial services.
a small number of very rich players.
should they loan out 300T and become even richer from interest income? or should they keep their reserves on their portal account, or exchange for gold coins? or should they give some to the poor? |
| Psycho_Honey (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 07:47 pm
Tommi, Tommi, Tommi...
really? He asked a question, followed it up with an assumption to make me seem like I was exaggerating the fact that I have a lot of loans. He then proceeded to follow that up with some kind of seemingly innocent request that was rather insulting.
Now maybe I'm not your average internet chick, but asking a lady for pics in the manner he has is very insulting and offensive. So, excuse me for answering his question in a likewise manner.
As far as the rest. I will answer your questions.
Psycho_Honey gives money to the poor. I give very handsome exchange rates to respectful and humble new players that I find meet my criteria for such benevolence. I have given up to 2 trillion per coin in multiple exchanges made over the last 18 months. I have given a few players up to 10 TRillion in exchange for a single coin who have since disappeared. Not so much in the last 3 - 5 months because chat is lonely and boring. A waste of bandwidth when I have multiple programs running and multiple tabs open in my browser.
Psycho_Honey should give out money for loans, even more than 300 trillion. Because the name of this game is economics. Making loans make dollars. Why shouldn't I make more loans?
Psycho_Honey does exchange cash for coins. I have even sold many of them after that exchange outside of the game. What other purpose would they serve? I'll tell you why I shouldn't have exchanged them. I had more than 1200 Trillions in cash at one point. During that time period, more than 300 trillion were swiped from my countries on Little Upsilon due to settings changes made independently, by the game for no apparent reason. I paid those loans off even though I got no response to forum posts about it, from W3C or recompense for my very unusual and large losses. To make matters worse, I had those 1200 trillion when gold coins were worth more than double their current value. Which means had I held on to those coins, I would have had twice as many gold coins to sell today than previously. The rate of decline is also very alarming too, to me at least.
Now I have heard of the reasoning behind the GC devaluation. But the perceived benefit goes both ways but because it was done artificially absent a real market dictating price. Like a shortage of cash, or an excess of GC. Therefore, in my eyes, the benefits are artificial. Profits are measured in cash, which we know to be nowhere near the previous levels of more than 24 months ago.The profits are then translated into the universal GC. Now you will say to me that countries are more profitable than ever. Countries are making more GC than ever, but the only reason for that is that the base price is cut in half so the old 1 is now 2. So yeah Now I have more GC, but my cash is worth nothing, and harder to create. The increase in GC per sim dollar serves as a veil to the systematic decline of the markets and profitability across simcountry.
The only bonus in this is that the Gold Coin is still valued outside of Simcountry at 36USD per 360GC. But this only benefits as you say "a small number of very rich players."
I don't know why I feel offended right now. Maybe interpreted that last part of your post as an accusation of greed. Sorry if I mistook your words. |
| Maestro2000 (Golden Rainbow) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 07:58 pm
I'm normally not in any mood to defend Wendy but feel Tom's comment went too far.
Tom, please stay on point. Don't lower yourself to a players level with chat.
Let players insult other players, good or bad. Steer clear and take the high road.
Cheers,
Maestro |
| Laguna | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 08:16 pm
Quote:should they loan out 300T and become even richer from interest income? or should they keep their reserves on their portal account, or exchange for gold coins? or should they give some to the poor?
Let us ask Warren Buffett what he thinks.
Quote:Steer clear and take the high road.
Take the hint. |
| SuperSoldierRCP (Fearless Blue) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 08:35 pm
Tommi i have a rebuttal you stated below
Should they loan out 300T and become even richer from interest income? or should they keep their reserves on their portal account, or exchange for gold coins? or should they give some to the poor?
Required number of Countries: 5
Required number of Enterprises: 2
Required AVERAGE Population Number: 35 million
Required AVERAGE defensive Index: None Required
Required AVERAGE Defense Index: None Required
Required AVERAGE Education Index: 130
Required AVERAGE Health Care Index: 130
Required AVERAGE Transportation Index: 130
Required AVERAGE Social Security Index: 100
Required AVERAGE Salary Level: 150
Required AVERAGE Financial Index: 140
Required AVERAGE Employment Index: 90
Required Average Net Cash Level: 25 Trillion
Required Number of Corporations in the Enterprise: 800
Awarded Number of Gold Coins: 100
RIGHT THERE IM GOING TO GET HIT WITH SERVICE FEES
5countries??? Thought i was peaceful i have to war when a C3 cost 180GC. 25T net cash average that’s 125T there averaged though 5countries
You should set it to count portal cash holdings so i can move up in the econ levels or raise the Fin Services to the required net cash level. |
| Blueserpent (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 10:00 pm
@ supersoldier
And how many ppl apart from me are actually at lvl 14?
No point complaining about a lvl 14 requirement when your nowhere near it
If you need more countries for a new lvl, take one at lvl 1 or pay for it.
You cant keep having it both ways. |
| Maestro2000 (Fearless Blue) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 10:04 pm
If I really wanted, I could get to level 14 on the econ side. The problem is the financial service costs would probably eclipse my income.
So whats the point? |
| SuperSoldierRCP (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 10:20 pm
hahaha u both know thats lvl 10requirements right?
this is lvl 14
Requirements for Game Level 14 (Peaceful Game)
Required number of Countries: 10
Required number of Enterprises: 2
Required AVERAGE Population Number: 70 million
Required AVERAGE defensive Index: None Required
Required AVERAGE Defense Index: None Required
Required AVERAGE Education Index: 200
Required AVERAGE Health Care Index: 200
Required AVERAGE Transportation Index: 180
Required AVERAGE Social Security Index: 120
Required AVERAGE Salary Level: 260
Required AVERAGE Financial Index: 200
Required AVERAGE Employment Index: 96
Required Average Net Cash Level: 80 Trillion
Required Number of Corporations in the Enterprise: 1600
Awarded Number of Gold Coins: 150 |
| SuperSoldierRCP (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 10:23 pm
and incase ur wondering in lvl 16
THIS ONE IS MY FAVORITE!!!
Requirements for Game Level 16 (Peaceful Game)
Required number of Countries: 15
Required number of Enterprises: 2
Required AVERAGE Population Number: 120 million
Required AVERAGE defensive Index: None Required
Required AVERAGE Defense Index: None Required
Required AVERAGE Education Index: 240
Required AVERAGE Health Care Index: 240
Required AVERAGE Transportation Index: 240
Required AVERAGE Social Security Index: 120
Required AVERAGE Salary Level: 400
Required AVERAGE Financial Index: 240
Required AVERAGE Employment Index: 96
Required Average Net Cash Level: 120 Trillion
Required Number of Corporations in the Enterprise: 1700
Awarded Number of Gold Coins: 150 |
| Maestro2000 (Golden Rainbow) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 10:28 pm
Look at the cash requirement from the list above(Level 14):
Required Average Net Cash Level: 80 Trillion
80 trillion * 10 countries
Imagine the finance service cost on that. |
| Maestro2000 (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 10:37 pm
Level 16
Average population = 120 million
(And 15 countries)
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!
To dream, the impossible dream.....
|
| SuperSoldierRCP (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 10:45 pm
this is why i lobbyed for revised lvls and im so pushy on fixing the econs
They GM added HTworkers to every corp sand used to use none...now it needs 15K people
Base price is a joke they GM says the price can fall to 20% of base price = no profit cant be made...but the price can go almost 2times the base
Welfares a great idea for corps but for CEO C3 and new players it drops production below 100%
long long list atleast fix econ lvls and fix the war lvls |
| Josias (White Giant) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 11:09 pm
well, considering, the extra difficulties in the peaceful game are fair. i mean, consider the cash level requirements just for one point. a war slave is going to spend that much easily on weapons and ammo.... and not be level 16 or what ever equal level. |
| Blueserpent | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 11:11 pm
my point exctly. Lvl 14 war was what i was on about. If you want to play econ, pay for the c3.
Super your econ lvls involve what? extra corps and some extra cash? playing econ, it should be a breeze for you. |
| Tom Willard (Golden Rainbow) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 11:16 pm
Psycho Honey
There was no intention to offend you at all.
If you feel it was offensive I do apologize.
As I saw it, he just did not know you can loan more than 10T. The last sentence escaped me completely. I don't know what it was about.
I also did not know about any help you gave to others and I did not suggest you never did.
I do think that at the end, you should measure earnings in gold coins and you are able to exchange cash into gold coins and the 1200T is now worth 2 x what it was before.
as to loaning 300T. There are players who have 10 time that. we have not prevented it but made it a little harder.
It was never our intention to have players sit on their money and make a fortune from interest.
it was even worse before.
interest rates are 30% per real year and far too high.
This is why we have reduced rates in the past and have the financial services compensate for some of it.
reducing the rates to 3 or 5% and removing the financial services would be probably less controversial but the way it works now, benefits the players with a smaller amount of cash reserves.
There are many good reasons to increase the value of game money. There is no true value in the game and the amounts being traded are a fraction of the total amount available.
shortages will never occur in the current market. most probably it will stay where we leave it.
There is no way to "compute" what the real value is and nobody would be able to say where it goes or stops.
we have a measure we use. It is not a true value at all but rather part of our long term vision and we take decisions according to this model. |
| Tom Willard (Golden Rainbow) | Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 11:26 pm
Warren Buffett gave more than half of his fortune to charity and committed to give everything he owns.
The Financial services
The funancial services do not harm 95%+ of the players.
and for players with a lot of money, they cost a fraction of the interest income.
In the past, before money could be stored on the direct market account. there was a discussion about it and at the time, one of our alternatives was to reduce interest rates and reduce the financial services and end up with much lower rates and no financial services.
I think that this is probably a better solution because the financial services feel like an arbitrary measure. lower rates make sense as 30% is 10 times too high. |
| SuperSoldierRCP (Little Upsilon) | Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - 12:04 am
Looking at this from a middle standpoint seeing both sides
I can agreed with the GM loans are too high.
I also agree with the players that the Fin Tax should be removed.
I had 50T in cash and lost i think 800B in 3-4months to it
---Possible Solutions---
What about reducing the loans and to even allowing players to set there own rates 5% being the minimum and 30% the max and maybe increasing the loan from 120months to 240months(to help players out cut down monthly payments)
Even set it up like buying goods...the player searches for the best loan. If the best loan rate is 13% that's what you get... Little competition never hurt anything. What about even allowing us to directly offer loans to people. I know my allies have needed cash but there was no way of giving them. A direct loan to a country or CEO would allow them to get the cash they need at a lower rate. This might help players out within Feds/Common Markets even players who want to help new players build up giving them a 5% loan would go along way more then a 30% loans
As you said about Warren Buffet giving his fortune to charity. Sim Country has that its called Relief Aid but it does nothing but boost your score. Ever think of making it increase welfare? Welfare has amazing potential if we can figure effective, logical, and easy ways to apply uses. I can see production being effected, higher Brithrates, Highest welfare being on the Security counsel, Ever though of welfare = the lvl of stable population. 130welfare = 130M pop being the cap?
The tax on capital gains directly affects investment decisions, the mobility and flow of risk capital... the ease or difficulty experienced by new ventures in obtaining capital, and thereby the strength and potential for growth in the economy.
John F. Kennedy |
| Psycho_Honey (Little Upsilon) | Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - 12:18 am
Tom, don't worry, I still have a soft spot in my heart for you
I was joking about taking offense at your message. |
| Maestro2000 | Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - 03:52 am
I just started doing loans again. (Yesterday)Was out of it for a couple of months.
So Wendy and Laguna can have some competition. (And a few others) |
| SuperSoldierRCP (Little Upsilon) | Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - 07:35 am
Seems as if the GM has already started on this its at 29%
TOMMI, JOZI... SOMEONE STOP!!!
Before you lower the rates and make people mad can you tell us what you plan to do so we can spit ball ideas.
Whats your plan i looked it looks like 100T at 5% = 1.5 to 2B a month interest. Whats your plan for the World bank. Are we setting loan prices??? Before you lower it lets talk so there's not a massive GM outcry in a week. |
| Tom Willard (Golden Rainbow) | Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - 08:46 am
Wow.
History graphs are quick to reveal even small changes.
We will publish today on the game news.
Our intention is to reduce interest rates from 30% and at the same time reduce the financial services.
both changes were tried yesterday night with a reduction of interest rates to 29% and a reduction of 4% in the financial services for countries.
we will gradually get rid of the financial services and bring interest rates down to reasonable levels. |
| SuperSoldierRCP (Little Upsilon) | Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - 09:01 am
Now before this changes to much
Define reasonable?
Again i agree interest ares are to high but dropping them to 5% means if i loan out 100T i make only 2B a month at that point its not even worth loaning cash out. We talking you lowering them to 15%. How about letting us set are own rates for loans at the same time. How about Econ levels if im only making 2B a month why the hell should i have cash n loans in excess of 100T needed to level if im getting no benifts? |
| Josias (Little Upsilon) | Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - 09:10 am
if FF are removed, and rate are reduced, then their is no risk to 100T + loans, makes sense to me. been a change thats long over due. truely |
| Blueserpent | Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - 10:12 pm
Your doing it again, lol...Good econ is there to make you your income not loans. The fact that you can make a small profit off loans is good but it shouldnt be your main source
It amazes me how many so called econ players are having to rely on loans to make a buck.
Make your damn countries work |
| Josias | Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - 11:13 pm
wow, blue, i agree. loans are cool, but with people running 3 *Q* loans, it doesn't allow little guys much wiggle room. i mean, really, the best option would be to make a max loans given. but that wont happen... |
| SuperSoldierRCP (Little Upsilon) | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 12:07 am
Me and Blue talked in the chat and i think it went well and we both understand where we was comming from and i enjoyed the chat that followed *stores info for later use*
We was talking its not so much that i myself am worried about loans being dropped to where i cant make large income of interest. My issue is how low will income go? As i told blue
Minimum you make
1B monthly income per 10T loaned
10B per 100T
In the case of people with 300T - 30B monthly
Lets say they drop it to 5% ( 1/6 of the current rate)
10T = 180M a month
100T = 1.8B a month
1Quadtrillion = 18B a month
Most of us have less then 100T so the loans make almost nothing.------I AGREE 100% WITH BLUESERPENT------. You shouldn't make a fortune off loans and let it be your primary income. That's what CEO/Econs are for.
But with welfare being a corporation factor and keeping index's high a little boost wouldn't hurt. I'm not saying lets leave it at 30% but maybe dropping it to 15% maybe 10% at the lowest.
I honestly really thing that letting us set prices is a great idea for CEO/Countries alike.
You take a loan at best price. Its harder to loan 300T @ 30% when everyone else is going 5-15%. Competition would form in the loan market and players have that feel good of controlling there loans a little more |
| Psycho_Honey (Little Upsilon) | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 12:11 am
It would be worthy to note that people who do loan a lot of loans have earned their way into doing so. If it is through economic gains that amassed the money to loan large sums or conquering or donating to the game I fail to see how loaning money should be so frowned upon solely on the basis of 'you loan too much'. Psshhh, give me a break. The fact that there is a market for people to loan even a single quadrillion means these people should be praised for providing something the game needs. The fact that they loan so much is a testament to their success, not a sore spot or weakness in their 'economic game'.
Why Josias would even suggest a cap is even more mind boggling. It is like Maestro suggesting changes to the war engine, that he never uses. |
| Blueserpent (Fearless Blue) | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 12:12 am
Again, with welfare driven by other indexes, it comes back to makin ur country work |
| Blueserpent (Fearless Blue) | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 12:18 am
Wendy, econ still is and always will be how profit is made in the game.
Loans isnt and shouldnt be the way to go.
Good econ was and should be the way forward. Loaning out massive amounts of cash, however obtained isnt the way to go |
| Psycho_Honey (Little Upsilon) | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 12:21 am
In rebuttal to Super's post. I don't care what rate it is. High Low, what needs to happen is it needs to be computed in game time, not real time. The money is borrowed in game time, but interest paid in real time. At what point does that make sense.
I also think that supply vs demand should be the mechanism determining the % of loan interest. As long as GM loans are in play there is clearly a shortage of loans, even while a few players loan massive amounts out. If there is a need for loans, why are we making moves to discourage people loaning out money? That doesn't make sense. If more people made a choice to loan out money, there wouldn't be such a market for players to loan out massive amounts. FF in and of itself has done more to discourage new loans because of the risk of FF if those loans come back and do not move.
Lower the rate, that isn't relevant, the time frame that interest is paid, is very relevant. You borrow in game time, you pay in game time.
Why not introduce bonds as an alternative instead of loans. Issue ratings for new bond issues based on Economic/Finance ratings and move away from loans and curb the big interest rates. The bonds can be paid in 5 10 20 25 50 100 year intervals and should have varying interest rates according to the bond maturity.
Just a thought, but the extreme of %30 and 1.5B down to 180M is too big of a leap for my liking. I can double my money every day in a few clicks I like making the loans because it looks good in my news bar. |
| Psycho_Honey (Little Upsilon) | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 12:22 am
Point taken Blue, but you are diverting the conversation from loans and making it more of an raw economic issue. At issue here is the fairness of extreme financial services and the unnecessary penalty for players who make loans that players in the game need. |
| Psycho_Honey (Little Upsilon) | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 12:25 am
I personally wouldn't want someone to come into the game and buy 10000 coins, then make cash and loan it all out. But people who have a bunch of loans isn't a bad thing either. A distinction needs to be made.
The direction that this conversation takes is using the same rationale we used to Bomb Iraq. 'We can't wait for a mushroom cloud to act.' Similar, 'If we let people make loans, they won't make an effort to run a decent econ', therefore let's bomb the loan makers. |
| Tom Willard | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 12:31 am
having players set interest rates is an invitation to cheat.
you just start a new account and give it loans for a very high interest rate.
one account is making money, the other is losing it and closes.
we had this in the past and had to stop it.
Supply and demand is also a problem because there is much more cash in the game than anyone needs.
Interest rates in game time means that it will have to be set at 0.05% per game year or lower.
That is hard to explain. |
| Blueserpent (Fearless Blue) | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 12:32 am
I totally agree with financial charges made. shouldnt be in the game now.
But....
you cant have no financial charges and still have high rates of interest for loans.
back to raw economics....its what makes your country tick...how u make ur buck that u want to loan out.
pirating countries like it used to happen, isnt there anymore.
So many new guys signing up and havent a clue where to start....i see so many so called good players that that need to try and force thro changes to help them...rubbish, its not needed |
| SuperSoldierRCP (Little Upsilon) | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 12:40 am
I agree with a few of your comments.
The World bank shouldn't offer loans in large sums. Hurts player loans and causes shortages
For Game time Vs Real time your talking 8.75B a month on a 1T cash loan at 120months so Paying Game time is not so much an opinion unless the pay back time is 360months or something.
Bonds i agree with it could be a opinion just like a loan. Its payment date is longer, gives higher interest income, and cannot be payed back early. Lets say so new players needs 5T instead of giving him a loan give him a bond. Bonds could be set to not effect the countries cash holdings *This could help stall the falling of the asset's ticker and the game auto blocking features" so instead of a noob being 8T loans and 2T negative cash and being auto blocked from fixing anything. A player could give them a bond 5T(max) and help them to recovery. This is why i like talking in these threads so many good ideas made in a short period of time |
| SuperSoldierRCP (Little Upsilon) | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 12:45 am
Tommi
What about blocking the amount of loans to a country from a player?
Let us set are own prices and send them to who we want but a single country cant have more then 2T from a single player and since you max loans at 8T. Cheating would be an option BUT it would be harder and even then they'd make less cash then they do now. If your really dropping prices 15% rate on 100T even if they where cheating is only 5B a month that's not a lot and someone is bound to notice |
| Blueserpent | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 01:01 am
Without world bank loans what should players do? loan from you at the rate you chose to set? LMAO, gimme a break super |
| Psycho_Honey (Little Upsilon) | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 01:01 am
You know I am a vigorous opponent of change Blue.
I didn't mean setup any random Number Tom. Whatever number you all think is plausible or acceptable, then have it vari up or down by 15% to promote competition to naturally drive down interest rates, As loans are in shortage they would gradually increase up to the top of the range until the market offers more loans. More of a free market.
Blue I see the same. The constant jelly rolling of the game coupled with the ever changing aspect(not evolving) is doing the game more harm than good.
I also never set the price of loan interest. The game did. If they didn't like that I would have liked to see them lower the rate as they are doing now, not siphon cash off the top because I didn't get loans out in time.
Economics, is hard to grasp in this game because everything works outside the laws of what everyone perceives free market economics to be. It may be following some basic economic model, but diverting from practical economic principles. That would take time to explain, so I won't, I'm sure most of the experienced players get what I am trying to say here. The divergence from basic economics needs to be explained so that people coming in don't get the idea that free market economics is in play. It is in some instances and will be overridden in other instances.
The wording used in the docs that implies 'best price'(which makes the most economic sense, practically speaking, does not mean that you will get best price in reality. Examples like this is why economics in this game is so hard to master in this game, especially when so many people come in interested in making an empire to go to war. The thrill of conquest needs to be balanced with the economic aspect. They are both important but now we are leaning on economics as it is very hard to war.
We keep getting into hypotheticals that should be taken care of or addressed outside of the subject loans instead of using them as a line of reasoning in order to deal with something you think is wrong with the seemingly huge profit potential of making massive loans.
The simplest way to accomplish this would have been to lower the interest rate, a long time ago. It seems there are more created problems by going about solving a simple problem in a overly complex way. |
| Blueserpent | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 01:06 am
Reducing the rate charged seems to be whats happening, all be it a lil overdue, lol.
Wendy you make an excellent point on new players coming into sc. E1 wants to war...no thought to how they gonna pay for it.
Blue muffles again into his coffee about econ bein the way to go |
| Psycho_Honey (Little Upsilon) | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 01:09 am
Fine! Econ is the answer. |
| Blueserpent | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 01:12 am
LOL, you tell me how it isnt and i will listen |
| Blueserpent | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 01:16 am
Who would need a loan from a player or the world bank if they was econ savvie and makin money? |
| Psycho_Honey (Little Upsilon) | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 01:41 am
I know. All new countries should have a time where they borrow money for infrastructure. Not because their economy is failing, but simply to speed up progress. |
| Accordion_This (Little Upsilon) | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 09:06 am
LOLWENDY
Just to clarify, I didn't ask you for pics, I continued that extended joke from the IDC recruitment page where I suggested that you're in some kind of, er, "situation" with me. Your response to my question seems like you're taking my lulz in good humour, which is good, but your response to Tommi then made it seem like you thought I was being offensive. So, if I offended you, I apologise. Please try to take everything I say with a grain of salt and remember, it's all for the lulz and for the drama.
Oh, and thank you for clarifying. |
| Laguna | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 10:39 am
Look at that, SC fuzzy logic at work again. The last time it was at work we had War Levels. Might as well throw a wrench into the machine.
Warren Buffett gave his wealth to the Gates Foundation. He did not "give it to the poor". The difference is a world's a distance. He put the money to work in the foundation, and before that he put the money to work in the market. If Buffett had to reply, he would have said "put the money to use". Putting money to work here means: trading goods, trading GCs and loaning it. Donating money to the Security Council would be interesting; specially because the Security Council hasn't been receiving its taxes for months now.
W3C has a sickly knack to automatize everything. There's no fun in anything that is automatic; at the least, there's frustration. So let's try something different here and make some fun with the creation of a bond market. Let the forces of supply and demand define the interest rate and all that jazz.
This market would work fairly simple, because all bonds are backed by the World Bank, thus we don't have to take into consideration the country/empire/player who's asking for the money. To put supply and demand in work, an auction style market - as in the real world - would be setup, where everyone can see the bonds being issued and the interest rates bid. In order to buy a bond, your bid would have to be the smallest interest rate bid. Bonds would either be issued by the game when the country goes into the negative or by the player. These bonds offer should be up in the market for three days or something, they can be manually retracted, if proposed by the player or if there is positive cash on hand, but they cannot be manually accepted in order to prevent cheating.
Now... given there is no difference between exchange rates of the different worlds, this can be setup from the portal, and be used much liked the direct market. We bid X% from country X on world K on offer W.
As for the GM intervention, besides securing every loan/bond, he could automatically bid an X% interest rate, so as to mark a maximum interest rate. To make things interesting, X% could move depending on the average interest rate bid - or some other measure. So no abuse happens, X could move solely within a predetermined bound.
I can imagine a player coming to the forum or messaging his federation asking for other players to bid a lower interest rates on his bonds. Some players would cry for help, others would make a gag and a giggle. This kind of stuff is good for the game. Much better than having loans automatically issued and delivered.
In this style of market it is very difficult to cheat. Who's there to assure you someone else won't bid a lower interest rate? Plus, in the amazingly off chance he does manage to cheat, he'll be easily spotted, because his interest rates will be far above the market interest rate.
This feature is doable, safe and engaging. Basically, it would be a much needed extension of the Direct/Cash market.
I'll leave the "if costs are in game time and revenues are in real time isn't this a lark" discourse for another time. |
| Crafty | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 02:54 pm
Bring back pirating.
Join the DARK SIDE. |
| Psycho_Honey | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 05:46 pm
Accordion, I know who you are. You had a history with my husband when he played, albeit brief. I don't take offense in the sense where I would have wanted you banned or begged for you to be silenced from the forum etc.
Jokes and insults are good, I enjoy them, I was just trying to explain my line of reasoning for my response to tommi.
If i don't like something someone says, I declare war when they don't expect it, and remind them why. Generally, I don't like to get mad, I get even. Getting even can sometimes be painful and slow for the offender, but it happens more often than not.
You didn't offend me in a literal sense. Or a serious manner, I just responded in kind. It is a game, I'll react to this forum and anything anyone says with that reasoning in mind.
And as far as suggesting you ask Wildeyes for her pics. There were more than rumors about her exchanging pics. I do however have my doubts. If anyone is dense enough to believe that this highly intelligent woman is sending her own pics across the net to internet strangers than she is smarter than most of us realize despite how much we already witness of her past displays of such intelligence. I highly doubt anyone has her pics although I do believe she sent you all who claim to have them something. We have a long standing love/hate war, it is a gurl thing. I don't expect you to understand, but it was what I think could have really been offensive about my posts. I have quotes of our cozy exchanges but I'll leave them to history. She knows how I feel about her, it isn't all good, and isn't all bad and that is that.
Thank you Laguna for de-jumbling my thoughts and explaining the concept of bonds in an intelligible manner. I can't express myself the same way things come to mind. Not sure why, probably rushing my posts. Blah, it is who I am so... lol. |
| Accordion_This | Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 10:54 pm
I had a history with your husband?? Who the heck was that? The only people I remember from back in the day were John Fire, you, Laguna, Stuart Taylor, the NLUO dude, Tattooed_Priest, and Austia.
Weird. |
| Psycho_Honey | Friday, March 25, 2011 - 02:28 am
Back in the Day: you used to have a respectable foothold on Lacerta that was respected by AF before UC was a real power. You probably won't remember. He's entirely against the game now, for personal reasons, so I won't say who. |
| Accordion_This (Little Upsilon) | Friday, March 25, 2011 - 02:39 am
Ah yes...Lacerta. Those were the days. |
| Psycho_Honey | Friday, March 25, 2011 - 02:49 am
Indeed they were. I was hardly interested in the game, but my husband went on about it and a few players often enough that I joined not long after he was forced out. Got banned or something, they even kept his membership fees.
|
| Laguna | Saturday, March 26, 2011 - 01:32 am
I have experience with models, either by working them or building my own, so I can more easily say precisely what I want. Knowing maths helps too. |
| Psycho_Honey | Saturday, March 26, 2011 - 08:27 am
Models?!? Like Victoria Secret Models.
And I know maths... 1 boob + 1 boob = boobs, Does that count |
| Maestro2000 | Saturday, March 26, 2011 - 01:31 pm
Come to New York City if you wish to meet some models. Some even hang with karaoke studs. |
| Laguna | Sunday, March 27, 2011 - 05:38 pm
Yes, that's the kind of models I work with. :p
That math is good enough for me.
I would have also accepted: 1 ball + 1 ball = ballsack. |
| Crafty (Golden Rainbow) | Sunday, March 27, 2011 - 08:33 pm
1 tit + 1 bollock = Maestro |
| Xaldin (Little Upsilon) | Sunday, March 27, 2011 - 08:48 pm
Honestly I'm bit of a loss as to what to do with the money I have and I don't have anything near the largest empires. I can buy more weapons I guess but really, if I'm not inclined to use them or up my war level so someone can make me use them then what? I have all the coins I need and don't make enough to sustain any sort of payback (not real interested either, my taxes are complicated enough without another revenue source and in my line of work having a revenue source from overseas is a pain due to the documentation of why/how/where/etc that has to be done for every transaction). |
| Crafty (Golden Rainbow) | Sunday, March 27, 2011 - 09:18 pm
Lol, you're too honest X if you would declare that small income!
Donate to "The FED" and I promise you a statue in the center of The Red Zone, capital city of Central Scrutinizer. A lasting tribute to your GC making skills. |
| Xaldin (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 09:12 pm
Honesty has little to do with it. Its just part of my 'line of work'. If I don't declare it I'll just get asked about it and someone else will write the details down. Part of it. |
