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Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 08:56 am  Below are prices for Wheat, Wine, Conventional Missiles, Interceptors.(in order) Base Price 310 SC$ per ton Market Price without Quality Effects 135 SC$ per ton Base Price 2,100 SC$ per crate of 1000 bottles Market Price without Quality Effects 951 SC$ per crate of 1000 bottles Base Price 820.00M SC$ per missile Market Price without Quality Effects 416.08M SC$ per missile Base Price 193.00M SC$ per interceptor Market Price without Quality Effects 106.51M SC$ per interceptor In all cases items are selling for below base prices which means they can never make a profit. Dozens of corps are like this. Game Master PLEASE make it so that market price is never below the base price.
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| Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 09:28 am why? There is a huge over-supply. CEOs and C3s should close more of these kinds of corps. SC has a free market (within certain price-bounds) and what should be fixed are the state corp AI so they drop a decade long losses corp. Once the over-supply stops,or demand goes up so will the prices. But i agree with ya on the point that corps that never can turn a profit should be fixed, but instead of messing up the free market mechanism i suggest another route of redemption.
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| Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 09:25 pm I agree withyou NiAi I dont want the free market messed up but limitations must be made. I have a Wheat corp 296Q with 150% production it makes 21B total off selling its goods. A brand new basic corp makes only 5.4B a year.(450M a month). I mean Hell the 10FMU units ALONE cost 45M a month. I dont want lose the free market but the lowest the price should ever go is cost.
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| Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 10:36 pm *facepalm* The whole point of the Base Price is a basic level that the Market price fluctuates around. The mechanism is in place to make sure that oversupply kills profits, as it does in reality, and overdemand promotes profits. If you have unprofitable corporations, you close them down or ride out the unprofitability. If demand increased and/or supply decreased, the Market Price AUTOMATICALLY rises. As I've stated numerous times before, limitations need not be made because of players' incompetence.
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| Friday, February 11, 2011 - 12:47 am actually scarlet fmu doesn't seem to up when demand is high, it tends to stagnate or drop, contrary to popular belief. I know this from buying fmu manually for over 2 weeks with my ceo.
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Friday, February 11, 2011 - 01:00 am
Yawn . . . Although, it does look closer to a four month cycle. Can't win them all. Base Price: 2.15M Market Price (with constant demand): 3.49M-3.62M Ooh! Game must be broke. Seriously, I'll bet it has something to do with most people's trade strategies.
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| Friday, February 11, 2011 - 03:11 am Why don't you match that chart up against demand? Show the similar time-line against demand, and the truth becomes obvious. In fact the game is not broken, the price of FMU is fixed regardless of supply vs demand in that very very tight range you showed. If FMU demand is barely over 1 million, the price may be something like 3.55m, while at the same time if demand consistently shot up to over 5 million (like it did for almost a week) the price dropped to under 3.48M, then back up to 3.60m when demand fell back to a steady 2 million. What part of that has anything to do with supply demand, bottom/top, four month cycles? Nothing. I haven't watched many other products, but in the case of FMU, demand has absolutely nothing to do with the price going up or down. I'm sure you left the demand chart out of your explanation because it would prove exactly what I am saying to be true.
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| Friday, February 11, 2011 - 06:41 am You miss my point. I'm saying that, when the market price has capped according to the base price mechanism, that is what it looks like. Demand ceases to be relevant. The bit about trade strategies has more to do with the reason why it doesn't remain at an even number.
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| Friday, February 11, 2011 - 03:32 pm Hm, I actually thought this was your point. "If demand increased and/or supply decreased, the Market Price AUTOMATICALLY rises." Maybe I misread something.
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| Friday, February 11, 2011 - 08:55 pm The first and second points are not incompatable. They are merely descriptive of the manner in which the market works. The first point was directed at the idea that market price should not drop below base price. This idea is ridiculous given that such a situation is temporary and intended by the existence of Market Price. The second point was directed at the idea that market price should be allowed to arise indefinitely. This idea is ridiculous as well given that the capping (the rule mentioned earlier) occurrence is intended by the existence of Base Price is to determine a floor and a ceiling to market price. What you have here is two game mechanics that are working exactly in the manner intended and the problems they pose are intended as structural to the market engine to ensure an economic game . . . which necessarily has winner and losers, being a game and all. In short, if you cannot cope with these changes, you're losing the game. It ain't broke. tl;dr You folks are losing the game.
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| Friday, February 11, 2011 - 09:06 pm lol, scarlet, i love it
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| Friday, February 11, 2011 - 09:45 pm maybe you were talking to super about saying the game is broke. You are dodging the fact that the point I referenced you making is wrong, more often than not. Market supply/demand do not move the price of FMU unless it is the opposite direction of what you said, "If demand increased and/or supply decreased, the Market Price AUTOMATICALLY rises." I don't believe the game is broken at all. I know for a fact that the game is coded. Code does not mutate. The price is fixed, maybe trade strategies are or are not moving the price up or down, but the free market myth is busted. Demand does not mean higher prices or more profit. It should, but the price is fixed. You saying it automatically rises with supply demand is not correct especially with FMU. It happens similarly, but less often with oil. This I know because I monitor the price as I buy those supplies. GMs have been tinkering with the price and profitability of FMU on and off for a while now. But we are getting away from the point I was making. This - "If demand increased and/or supply decreased, the Market Price AUTOMATICALLY rises." Is wrong, and you know why, if not re read the post above. This is the point you are missing, intentionally.
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| Friday, February 11, 2011 - 10:06 pm I'm sorry. I assumed that you understood Base Price.
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| Friday, February 11, 2011 - 10:40 pm This is kind of entertaining and sad at the same time. Since FMU is always in a shortage situation on LU, the price is fluctuating in a trading range above the base price. The ceiling appears to be 3.63
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| Friday, February 11, 2011 - 11:08 pm As for what i make... I make a few of them Scarlet and if need be ill close them not the issue(just closed my wheat). I understand the markets must change for better or worse this the way of econ. The Issue with Profit and Market Stability is what needs fixing. Look at those failing (selling below basic price). Those crops new players must make. What happens is as they make them(with prices falling) it gains surplus = lower prices then begins the cycle. Not to mention the War Players/Vets are selling weapons/ammo in massive numbers. I just bought 1M Anti Air missiles for 2.1M per missile when base is 6M, how is a corp suppose to compete with that when it make 150missiles a month(BTW thats a FREAKING JOKE!!! thats 350M a month, the FMU ALONE cost on a fully upgraded corp cost 320M a month). FMU hits high demand what happens??? They hit the cap and stay there pretty much(which is great but the same cant be done for base price?) but ill be honest scarlet when FMU die and sell below base you and others will be bitching that prices need reform... Look at the facts NON OF THEM MAKING PROFIT ALL 50 WHEAT CORP ARE NEGATIVE ALL 42 WINE CORP ARE NEGATIVE 249 of 249 ANTI AIR MISSILE CORPS ARE NEGATIVE I respect you scarlet and i will listen to you wisdom and take the help you hve offered as i have done before. BUT!!! until i see you run one of those crappy corps at 1000-1100 salaries (as i do) make 296 or 370Q (as i do) NOT WITH ASQ Watch your production go from 155% to 147% with the welfare changes AND YOU MAKE ENOUGH PROFIT TO KEEP THE CORPORATION AFLOAT!!! and still make a country with 180B a month in profit then i will shut up and give up this price reform UNTIL THEN i will fight for this reform. You called me out saying my strategies where poor...Well i dont see you uses those corps and making green, Hell remember my nuke corps you said i didnt make a profit on? You have chosen to build a corporation that will produce Nuclear Submarine Missiles. The maximum production of such a corporation is 1 missiles per year. MMMMMM i make a profit 4times over... END WALL OF TEXT SUPERSOLDIERRCP OUT!!!
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| Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 12:29 am All corps are capable of making profit, the fact that you want to do it with 1100 sals, is ur poor choice of strategy. Your 180B mthly profit is nothing to shout about. Using correct sals and corp settings you can raise income to over 800B a mth with over 500B profits.....reform? i dont think so.learn econ before shouting down others.
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| Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 01:03 am Most agricultural and food corps have never been very profitable in this game. The biggest problem with them is that such a low quantity is demanded and only a small number of those corporations are required to satisfy demand. What you should do is just get rid of those kinds of corporations. Let the third world countries(c3's) grow wheat and make something else instead. AA missiles and ammo in general used to be good, then people stopped building armies (and possibly for good reason) so all of that went kaput. Again, better to drop the corporations that make unwanted products and make other things. Really high salaries aren't as good any more either. The production bonus for increased salaries was reduced. I used to have mine set as high as 2000 in some cases, but those levels are no longer practical. Probably better off to try something lower.
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| Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 02:15 am their are allot of good corps that new players can build. chemicals, construction, oil, and services, for a short list. and i'm confused, why does a corp HAVE to be able to make a profit at 1100 sals?
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| Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 02:44 am I agree with Scarlet. As far as I've seen, the market prices fluctuate around the base prices; the market prices drop as supply increases and increase as supply decreases; the market prices also drop as demand decreases and increase as demand increases. It makes sense. I don't actually see what the issue is here.
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| Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 03:26 pm I would say the graph makes it pretty clear what is going on there is a cap the cap is 3.59~ when the price goes over the cap the game lowers the price for 2 months if the price gets more than 5% over the cap the game lowers the price for 3 months so all 50 wheat corps are negative if 25 were closed 20 would make money the other 5 would lose due to poor management(1100 salaries anyone?)
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| Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 04:35 am Based on my research it seems that the max cap is 1.68 of the base price. When there is a shortage of products(demand > supply), the market price increases unless the increase will make it go over the max cap. In which case, the market price will decrease instead.
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| Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 04:44 am I'm not going to bother to read all of this, but if there's something wrong with the economic model in the game? Yes, there is. Why should price behave as this given this? No reason, but it does. Pseudo-permalink 1 Pseudo-permalink 2 There are no cycles in game. That's nonsense, like the austrian business cycle theory. There were reactions to shocks and that has been largely mitigated.
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| Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 04:54 am Why shouldn't it behave like this? And what makes it wrong when it behave like this?
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| Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 05:09 am Look closer. From July to November the shortage shrinkages. In the same time period, price increases. In the following months, you find no matching delay, averaged or not. In more than one way, one graph should be the reflection of the other. And there should hardly be any spikes at all, considering prices are averaged from the prices of the previous months. I like my things simple and clean. This price-setting is none of that.
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| Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 05:26 am It does follow that. But with a slight twist when market price reaches the cap. There must some sort of cap or else the market will go haywire when there is a heavy shortage of certain products. And given that when market price reaches the cap, it either have to go down or remain constant. The developers chose to make it go down. Anyway, it is a simple matter for us. You just have to understand that if there is a shortage the market will increase if possible. If not, it will have to wait months to rise to the max.
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| Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 02:53 pm Rolls eyes... No one is talking about that. Learn some maths. Grow to read graphs. Read again.
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| Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 10:33 pm spires, I have to say I'm unfamiliar with you and the way you stated the issues you *THINK* you are having are merely things that go along with LEARNING the GAME in which these mechanics are applied. Their should be a quiz/test to give newer players rights to posting on the forum, or have a separate section of the forum for Q&A that for instance LG, Scarlet, Josias, etc.. (active forum helpful experienced players) are also added to respond. (I know we have help forums but maybe restrictions based on Time registered) :P and To Super and spires: All corporations are capable of making profit regardless of the ' market price '. WhiteDarkness, LG, Blueserpent, Floyd, and myself have proved this time and time again, its just a matter of listening instead of trying to get us to conform to your ideas/gameplay. because trust me, we've tried nearly everything.  Profits from my own personal corporations: Milk Profit last year: 17B Wine corporation: 9B Soybeans: 2.2B Floyd has wood corps making 20B per game year. So perhaps it may be the user, not the game..
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| Monday, February 14, 2011 - 05:03 pm Personally, my corporations do just fine by following a very simple strategy of producing products that are in high demand. Some of my corps are in areas that have periods of oversupply, but not a great oversupply and I can simply ride those out. So, I suggest simply producing products that are in short supply.
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| Monday, February 14, 2011 - 07:24 pm "So, I suggest simply producing products that are in short supply. " This suggestion all new players should heed to, save em lots of trouble. (just remember to check the graphs to you can determine if its just temporary shortage or a long one) Also, as in RL, some corps goes out of business cause of the competition. If you cant make your fully upgraded corp to produce a profit, consider sell it or close it.
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| Tuesday, February 15, 2011 - 01:32 am to take what niai just said a little farther, corps that are usually in high demand... take a look at their supplies. all corps buy supplies that are in demand, FMU, and Power for example, but corps that use allot of high priced supplies, like Books and News Papers. If your building those, consider using lower quality supplies, experiment...
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| Tuesday, February 15, 2011 - 04:59 am to take what Josias said, that will take NiAi's just a little further ( I feel like we're playing telephone lol) If you go to a country on a world, then go to the General>Download History>Product History and download err, well depending on how precise you intend to be with economics, You will notice patterns from an over all perspective. Most people don't use these Downloadable docs any more, but if you only knew how priceless they are to older players. They don't post them for every month, for many game years in advance for no reason :P Also refer to the Leaving guide for further tips on Josias's topic *** use a spending space booster to your mains, and/or enterprise, buy as many as possible of electric power (cheaper to do the nuclear power) and FMU's at 100 quality..and sell them into your corporations..
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