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Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 07:35 pm  Summary here: https://www.simcountry.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-auth.cgi?file=/1/14425.html&lm=1263151245 Session Start: Sun Jan 10 13:52:31 2010 Session Ident: #jozichat [13:52] * Now talking in #jozichat [13:52] * Topic is 'Waiting for the next session' [13:52] * Set by Laguna on Sun Mar 01 19:41:36 [13:52] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo Laguna Laguna [13:52] * Retrieving #jozichat modes... [13:53] * Laguna changes topic to 'Jozichat today at 15:00 GMT' [13:57] * Disconnected [13:57] * Rejoined channel #jozichat [13:57] * ChanServ sets mode: +ntr [13:57] * ChanServ changes topic to 'Jozichat today at 15:00 GMT' [13:57] * ChanServ sets mode: +q Laguna [13:57] * X has joined #jozichat [13:57] * ChanServ sets mode: +h X [14:51] * InannaYoMama has joined #jozichat [14:51] * Jozi has joined #jozichat [14:53] [Laguna] Hi, Jozi. [14:54] [InannaYoMama] do we need voices yet [14:54] [Laguna] Only when the rest of the people comes in [14:55] [InannaYoMama] aha, well i only 2 major things i wanna ask about [14:55] [Jozi] Laguna, we can start now or wait 5 minutes [14:56] * Rob has joined #jozichat [14:56] [Laguna] We should wait 5 minutes [14:56] * JamesW has joined #jozichat [14:56] [InannaYoMama] ok [14:56] [Jozi] James! long time no heR. [14:56] [Rob] hey guys [14:56] [Laguna] Even tamtam is alive [14:56] [InannaYoMama] hillo [14:57] * GreenStarfish has joined #jozichat [14:57] [Jozi] LONG TIME NO HEAR i MEAN. [14:57] [JamesW] yea sure has been Jozi [14:57] [JamesW] was just in the simcountry channel when I saw Laguna change the topic [14:58] [Laguna] Jozi and his crazy caps lock... [14:58] [InannaYoMama] brb Laggy, dont end it all quick on me, i'll be a ffew minutes [14:58] * Retrieving #jozichat modes... [14:58] [Jozi] I got all confused and mistyped when I saw James coming in. [14:59] * Laguna changes topic to 'Poke Laguna with a stick (that's a PM), so you can voice your questions and opinions.' [14:59] * Laguna sets mode: +o Jozi [15:00] [Laguna] Maybe we should get this going. What does everyone say? [15:01] [Rob] sure [15:01] * Laguna sets mode: +m [15:02] [Laguna] Is Jozi around or did he left while he could to escape the pitchforks and grab something to eat? [15:03] [Jozi] I am here and ready when you are [15:03] [Laguna] Very well. Let's begin! If anyone would like to speak, please send me a PM. [15:04] [Laguna] Seeing as this is the first chat of the year, would you like to say to players what developments to you have in place for the game? [15:05] [Laguna] We see space trade as been around the corner for some months now, but I still can't drive a spaceship into an asteroid yet. [15:05] [Jozi] True [15:05] * Genie has joined #jozichat [15:05] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Genie [15:05] [Jozi] We are working on some large additions and many small ones. [15:06] [Jozi] space trading and travel will be the first large one and we will soon start adding the products that are needed and the logistics of moving goods around. [15:07] [Jozi] at the same time, we are starting to add alternative power sources, to start with nuclear power but will add several more [15:07] * Deathsight has joined #jozichat [15:08] [Jozi] we plan this as part of the alternative energy sources combined with CO2 emmissions and pollution in general. we will add small features and make it step by step. [15:09] [Jozi] resources, an old idea is also a major addition. we want to step away from the current situation when everyone can start an oil corporation [15:09] [Jozi] or 50 oil corporarations anywhere. [15:10] [Jozi] then, there are many small features, requested and voted on, and evenore features to make it easier to see what happens. [15:11] [Jozi] Exampl: where is my money going, transaction by transaction. Now, many people are confused and do not see what happened. they just see their money going somewhere. [15:11] [Jozi] A last one for now: [15:12] [Jozi] we are working on features that will allow beginners to easily join and succeed. [15:12] [Jozi] this will include many automation functions that they can set on or off. [15:12] [Jozi] also a "What next" function that will replace the important things to do. [15:13] [Jozi] it should be more specific and depend on the situation in the country and direct new players to do what is good for the country and learn quickly. [15:13] [Jozi] done [15:14] [Laguna] Thanks for the insight. [15:14] [Laguna] GreenStarfish is next. [15:14] * Laguna sets mode: +v GreenStarfish [15:14] [GreenStarfish] Jozi, thank you for having this chat, I was looking over the peaceful game levels and wondered if their is any sort of protection from aggression for players that choose to play this way? [15:15] [Jozi] There is always the protection for the main country. Extending protection to multiple countries is problematic. [15:16] [GreenStarfish] I remember some of the past conversations about that, but if players can be rewarded for improving everything [15:16] [Jozi] You can easily switch between the two modes so this will become an escape for everybody to prevent any war against them. [15:16] [Jozi] done [15:16] [GreenStarfish] except for defense, isn't that setting them up for attack? [15:17] [Jozi] we could have some help for them, if defense is indeed non existent. [15:17] [GreenStarfish] for example? [15:18] [Jozi] the peacefull players do have the advantage of reduced cost because they do not need defense. [15:18] [Jozi] now, some pay gold coins to purchase temporary war protection. [15:19] [Jozi] we could make a separate feature for peaceful players to have that protection under different conditions if they have no army at all. [15:19] [Jozi] done [15:19] [GreenStarfish] I would like that [15:19] [GreenStarfish] thanks [15:19] [GreenStarfish] done, thanks LG [15:20] * Administrator has joined #jozichat [15:20] * Laguna sets mode: -v GreenStarfish [15:20] * Laguna sets mode: +v InannaYoMama [15:20] [InannaYoMama] uh oh.... Hi jozi! [15:20] [Jozi] I will discuss this in the coming week and come back with a specific idea as to how this can be done. [15:20] [Jozi] Hi Inanna [15:20] [InannaYoMama] I only have two or three very important questions [15:21] [InannaYoMama] wilol be quick [15:21] * Administrator is now known as Manny [15:22] [InannaYoMama] 1. GR security council past a resolution to ban nuclear weapons in my main. which of course are stockpiled, this will not wipe out my current stock as I have a large amount of them... [15:22] [InannaYoMama] ? [15:23] [Jozi] The resoluto will have no effect on the current stockpiles. [15:23] [InannaYoMama] very nice, if it did that would be a sour point, thx [15:23] [InannaYoMama] ok 2... [15:23] [Jozi] we cannot take assets away. [15:24] [Jozi] we can limit speific trading as a result of such a vote. [15:24] [Jozi] confiscating them is a different issue. we never implemented any such feature in the game. [15:24] [InannaYoMama] ok [15:26] * WildEyes has joined #jozichat [15:26] * Laguna wonders if Wendy is going to ask something more... [15:27] * InannaYoMama Quit (Connection reset by peer) [15:27] [Laguna] Well, that answers my question. [15:27] * Laguna sets mode: +v Manny [15:28] [Manny] hi Jozi ! [15:28] [Jozi] Hi Manny [15:28] [Manny] its been awhile, I was in Amsterdam for my birthday last year, wonderful city [15:29] [Manny] i have about a dozen questions for you, and since Laguna is giving me the floor, ill go one by one [15:29] [Jozi] good for you. I was there last Thursday and it took me very long to get there in the snow. [15:29] [Manny] you probably know my first question, but here it is anyways [15:29] [Jozi] skip it. [15:29] [Manny] Logistics [15:30] [Jozi] that is good. [15:30] [Manny] so let me expand [15:31] [Manny] The current transportation index is made of roads, traintracks and water treatment plants [15:31] * InannaYoMama has joined #jozichat [15:31] [Manny] i remember years ago that the TI was supposed to have some sort of influence on welfare and production [15:31] [Jozi] it has [15:32] [Manny] over the years, several players suggested the additions of electric lines, pipelines, my suggestion was trains [15:32] [Manny] i realized that trains was not something concrete, so instead i would like to propose transit [15:32] [Manny] like city transit and inter-city transit [15:32] [Manny] and freight transportation for goods [15:32] [Jozi] can I answer? [15:33] [Manny] transit would include trains, subways, bus, etc [15:33] [Manny] done for q1 [15:33] [Jozi] ok [15:33] [Jozi] The TI is not what it should be. [15:34] [Jozi] we should split between all forms of transportation in that index and split water treatment and polution functions into another. [15:34] [Jozi] this is planned and will be implemented when we move a little further on the pollution functions. [15:34] [Laguna] For future reference, TI = Transportation Index. [15:35] [Jozi] as to transportatin in general: it has an influence on the welfare index. The welfare index depends on the lowest of several indexes including transportation. [15:35] [Jozi] logistics: [15:36] [Jozi] we all know that the instant delivery of all goods you purchase in your countries and corporations is unrealistic. [15:36] [Jozi] we have experimented with real logistics when we implemented the relief supplies and we will introduce logistices when we [15:36] [Manny] like hospitals delivered on "immediate" [15:37] [Jozi] implement the space trading. [15:37] [Jozi] you will use cargo shuttles to move goods to space stations where trading will take place and you will be able to move goods back to your countries. [15:38] [Jozi] implementing a full logistics system for all the trading on all the worlds is complex and we are not sure it will help much. [15:38] [Jozi] it will make things more complex. [15:39] [Manny] do you intend to split between goods and services ? high tech services are a service [15:39] [Manny] utilities are a service [15:39] [Jozi] as long as this is not implemented, it does not make much sense to implement transportation in details and moving people around should have some function in the game or it should not be implemented. [15:39] [Jozi] I saw some reaction on the forum about trains and it was exactly what we think about it. [15:39] [Jozi] done [15:40] [Manny] im not sure i grab your intentions completely with the space trading, for me this still abstract, can you expand further please [15:40] [Jozi] there will be no trading of hospitals on space stations. [15:41] [Jozi] large items will remain in the separate worlds. [15:41] [Jozi] we will setup trading for products on space stations. you will be able to transport these products, from any world or country [15:41] [Jozi] and store them. [15:42] [Manny] will oil, gasoline and such also be traded on space stations ? [15:42] [Jozi] you will need a docking station and storage space. [15:42] [Jozi] you will be able to setup your own space station and sell such rights to others. [15:43] [Jozi] goods will e traded where they are stored and will be moved out or remain there and traded again. [15:43] [Jozi] you will be able to store ammunition and deliver to whoever needs it anywhere. [15:43] [Jozi] the trading will be similar to the gold coin trading on the diret trading pages only in this case, [15:44] [Manny] how will entreprises trade ? [15:44] [Jozi] the goods you trade, must be available or you cannot sell them. [15:44] [Jozi] we will allow enterprises to purchase cargo shuttles and land them anywhere to load and unload. [15:45] [Jozi] trading will be for most products except for air fields, military bases and such. [15:45] [Jozi] trading will be for gold coins. (with two digits added). [15:46] [Manny] theres other people who want to ask questions, so ill ask shorter questions [15:46] [Jozi] more? [15:46] [Manny] players have suggested pipelines in the past, any chance of having pipelines added in the future ? [15:47] [Manny] I have 5 short questions/suggestions [15:47] [Laguna] Please hurry. Or just answer yes/no, Jozi. [15:47] [Jozi] same answer. If we do logistics then yes. otherwise these pipelines will have no function. Why do I need an oil pipe line if I can purchase a million ton and have it instantly anywhere I want it? [15:48] [Jozi] yes [15:48] [Manny] because if the country you buy from is next door to you, it doesnt make much sense to buy from outer space, just my opinion [15:48] [Jozi] true. buy it from the neigbor. [15:48] [Jozi] typo... [15:48] [Manny] suggestion 1- Allow transfers of intra-empire professionals from 1 screen instead of country switching back and forth [15:49] [Manny] is this planned soon ? its been requested over a dozen times [15:49] [Jozi] will be nice. Even more work. I will look into it. [15:49] [Jozi] this is a yes. [15:49] [Laguna] lol [15:49] [Manny] suggestion 2- Allow transfers of intra-empire of non-military supplies instead of country switching back and forth [15:50] [Manny] same concept [15:50] [Jozi] same [15:50] [Manny] 3- Allow the setting of income tax % for general population [15:50] [Manny] this was promised some time ago [15:51] [Jozi] this is needed but must be implemented as part of a larger concept. otherwise you can just set it to 100%. [15:51] [Jozi] if you set it to 100% everybody should die. [15:51] [Jozi] yes/no [15:51] [Manny] July 9, 2008: (your response) Tax levels should be variable and user set for the income tax for workers. [15:52] [Laguna] Lets get a move on, Manny. [15:52] [Jozi] Yes i DO AGREE BUT THERE SHOULD BE CONSEQUENCES, IT IS NOT JUST IMPLEMENTING THE SCREEN TO LET YOU CHOOSE A PERCENTAGE. [15:52] [Jozi] OOPS. oops. [15:52] [Manny] im done for now [15:52] [Manny] thank you very much [15:52] * Deathsight Quit (Connection reset by peer) [15:53] * Laguna sets mode: +v JamesW [15:53] * Laguna sets mode: -v Manny [15:53] [JamesW] about WP. Since we've talked about it before. Now that W3 has introduced the peaceful game levels, would they consider implimenting peaceful and war modes for whole empires (assuming secure mains are still kept for the time being)? [15:54] [JamesW] there could be a set number of times you're allowed to toggle each year, along with a limit on how long between toggles [15:54] * Deathsight has joined #jozichat [15:55] [Jozi] this is similar to the discussion we had a few minutes ago. [15:55] [Jozi] limiting the number of switches was tried before and is used but is is not well understood and causes confusion. [15:56] [Jozi] I will look into empire wide WP. It is of course possible now but you pay many gold coins. [15:56] [JamesW] also just a side comment in regards to income tax levels, I imagine it would be fairly easy to have any tax rates affect the welfare index of the country and hence the migration index. So high taxes and population starts fleeing the country and low taxes and they flock to the country. [15:56] [Jozi] I think that we should implement it for such empires, if they have no defense what so ever, no bases and nothing at all and have them [15:57] [Jozi] pay, but less and in game money. This makes sense because they have no defense costs at all. [15:57] * CC has joined #jozichat [15:57] * iki-ryo has joined #jozichat [15:57] [Jozi] they will spend some of that amount as WP for the empire. [15:57] [Jozi] I promised to check it with the engineers this week and I will come back with a suggestion. [15:58] [Jozi] switching will not make sense as the countries will become volnurable [15:58] [Jozi] done [15:58] [Jozi] true. [15:59] [Jozi] the income tax levels must be implemented but we must then implement the consequences of bad choices. [15:59] [Jozi] your suggestion is indeed good. it should have multiple effects and then, it adds to the game. [16:00] [Jozi] this is not to hard to implement as the user interface consequence are very limited. [16:00] [Jozi] I will come back with a suggestion in the coming week. [16:00] [Jozi] these suggestions will be on the forum - by Tom. [16:01] [Jozi] done [16:01] * Laguna sets mode: -v JamesW [16:02] * Laguna sets mode: +v InannaYoMama [16:02] [InannaYoMama] ok sorry i had a power outage jozi [16:03] [Jozi] you recovered quickly [16:03] [InannaYoMama] yes was a quick one lol [16:03] [InannaYoMama] has been happening alot lately for some reason [16:04] [InannaYoMama] well, will game speeds on different worlds have ny effect on space trading [16:05] [Jozi] The function is being implemented on the portal system. Cargo shuttles will have a fixed speed and make it to space stations withing less then an hour independent of the world. [16:05] [Jozi] how much shorter than one hour is not clear yet. [16:06] [InannaYoMama] well, I meant actual amounts you can tranfer, meaning I can produce goods much faster on LU than on 4 month worlds which i guess would still offset shuttle delays [16:06] [Jozi] if you have 10 of these cargo shuttles, you will be busy but we will let you enter a sequence of actions and the shuttle will follow these instructions. [16:07] [Jozi] if you want to ship more, you will need more such shuttles. we will make them very large. very very large to prevent you from needing 1000 of them. [16:08] [Jozi] you will see them moving, all of them, if you zoom into the space picture. [16:09] [Laguna] All of them... All space shuttles belonging to everyone, or just all of my space shuttles? [16:09] [Jozi] I am done. I hope you power is on [16:09] [InannaYoMama] not to bring up a sore subject, but there have been accusations of destructiveness in game, what would w3c consider destructive? Say i want to take an empire, but the player doesn't want to fight and creis wolf, what are your feelings towards this kind of situation [16:09] [InannaYoMama] lol [16:09] [InannaYoMama] yes it is [16:10] [Jozi] when you zoom, you see a section. so you will see all the shuttles in that section. [16:10] [Jozi] all of them, yours and others. [16:11] * JamesW Quit (Quit: ) [16:11] [Jozi] before we had war protection. we did not have war protection... [16:11] [Jozi] complete empires where wiped out to the point that wehave decided to offer some protection. [16:12] [Jozi] now, it seems that theprospect of fighting a real war, not against a C3 country, is seen as a problem. [16:13] [Jozi] I think that with the possibility to protect with temporary WP and with you main country and assets always protected, this is good enough and countries can be lost. [16:13] [Jozi] done [16:13] [Laguna] If I were to make a function translating the influence of thoughts and changes done to the war module and the frequency of war, and if I were to determine the limit of said function, the limit would be 0 as it tends towards infinity. [16:14] [InannaYoMama] in other words, if I take someones empire(not that I want to), and they say they want to report me to you guys becuase they want to quit, it is a nonstarter.... and to the c3 situation, shouldn't a player be happy to only defend themselves against a weaker country. I am sure they wouldn't be happier if i had a large country and rolled over them. [16:14] [Jozi] you mean no war protection? [16:16] [Jozi] Our position on this never changed. although we implemented secured mode and WP, we did so, to prevent total destruction and wanted to allow people to build assets and be able to protect them. [16:17] [Jozi] we did not introduce total protection and we intentionally left the risk of war in place and we have no intention to make war more difficult. [16:17] [InannaYoMama] okay, that is enough here, thx Jozi, nice to hear from you, I love your game haha.... [16:18] [Jozi] thnaks [16:18] * Laguna sets mode: -v InannaYoMama [16:18] [Jozi] laguna, I fail to understand what you meant by your last remark. [16:18] [Laguna] It was nothing. [16:19] [Laguna] A new design for the country page has been released recently, but it has been finished yet. [16:20] [Jozi] we have released a new update last Wednesday. [16:20] [Laguna] When will it be finished and when will the old design be eventually removed? [16:20] [Jozi] there will be more updates and improvements. we want to be sure it is easy to work with. [16:22] [Laguna] And the enterprise homepage? Will be changed as well? [16:23] [Jozi] I have some problems with it. we need some more improvements, like people want to see the indexes like they used to in the old setup and some pages should be more readable with the default colors. [16:23] [Jozi] only when all this is done, we will make it the default. [16:23] [Laguna] So, you want feedback. [16:23] [Jozi] enterprise home page will follow. [16:24] [Jozi] feedback will be great! we also count the number of players who switched. [16:24] [Laguna] Okay. I will leave the note on the summary of the meeting. [16:24] [Jozi] thanks. [16:24] [Laguna] Two things I have noticed on the new setup: [16:25] [Laguna] 1. It doesn't display newspapers. [16:25] [Laguna] 2. The game level pop up has enough information and importance to open like a widget/page/don't know [16:25] [Jozi] true. you can find them but they are not showing as on the old setup. [16:26] [Jozi] The game level page is not updated yet, and many more pages are also untouched. [16:27] [Jozi] we will move more pages into the new format. this is an ongoing process and each of the guys is doing his own pages. [16:28] [Laguna] Thanks. That was all. [16:28] * Laguna sets mode: +v Manny [16:28] [Manny] on the layout question, i want to keep the old layout, can you promise not to remove it [16:28] [Jozi] I forgot about the quality of military units. next step coming Tusday with units allowed to start fluctuate. [16:29] [Jozi] Also, a week later, some automation functions and a detailed log of what the automatic system has done for you. [16:31] [Jozi] Manny, we will end up with one single system. we will not update two sets of pages. You can customize the page and get rid of anything you do not like. If you like nothing, remove all the agdgets. [16:31] [Manny] the old layout has not been updated in 6 years [16:32] [Manny] i dont like the layout as of itself, not the gadgets itself [16:32] [Jozi] I don't know about 6 years but we have updated it very recently. [16:32] [Manny] i meant to say that graphic updates have been minor since i started playing 6 years ago [16:32] [Jozi] customize. there is nearly nothing you cannot change. make it all black. [16:33] [Manny] its not my highest concern, so i will deal with it eventually [16:33] [Manny] i would like to ask about the Implement the long-time promised natural resources [16:34] [Manny] implementation of * [16:34] [Manny] are these also related to the space shuttles and all ? [16:34] [Manny] done [16:34] * GreenStarfish has left #jozichat [16:34] [Jozi] natural resources: i reffereed to it earlier. We see it as very important and will implement ASAP. [16:35] [Jozi] probably after the space function and the military quality and some beginners functions. [16:36] * Laguna sets mode: -v Manny [16:36] * Laguna sets mode: +v CC [16:37] [Jozi] the natural resources are unrelated to the space trading. they are related to game assets as you will need a concession to start a mine or start an oil company. It is also related to the mission system we want to add. [16:37] [Jozi] done [16:37] [CC] Hello Jozi, we haven't met before. [16:37] [Jozi] indeed. [16:38] [Jozi] Hello [16:39] [CC] Now that you have implemented quality in weapons and ammo, I think there is a need to be able to specify quality purchased through automatic systems. [16:39] [CC] So trade strategies in countries would allow you to buy 200Q ammo and still buy 100Q milk for example. [16:40] [Jozi] weapons are not purchased automatically but on ammunition you are right. [16:41] [Jozi] The quality of other products, purchased by countries is currently not making a very big difference but it will. [16:41] * Sam_Houston_ has joined #jozichat [16:41] [Jozi] we should indeed look into it. [16:41] [Jozi] I think that there was some discussion on this but I don't remember. [16:42] [CC] Yes, my error, ammunition. Thats the only thing others haven't covered, Thankyou Jozi. [16:42] [CC] Done. [16:42] [Jozi] I will find out and come back, this week with a clear message on what will be done. [16:42] * Laguna sets mode: -v CC [16:42] [Jozi] on quality of weapons and ammunition: [16:42] [Jozi] imagine you purchase weapons at Q250. [16:43] [Jozi] they will end up in the units as 125. [16:43] [Jozi] the unit quality however, can be increased to much higher values. [16:43] [Jozi] quality will mainly depend on the upgrading of the units. [16:43] [Jozi] disbanding units will be damaging to quality. [16:44] [Jozi] done [16:44] * Laguna sets mode: +v WildEyes [16:44] [WildEyes] Hi Jozi, I want to second CC's suggestion for automatic systems and follow up. When offering a direct contract from a corp to a country (not local or common market contracts, you all know the difference), I would like to see an option to sell products "at cost" or some sort of other discount. [16:44] [WildEyes] My reason for requesting this is a result of the impending implementation of quality for weapons and ammunition. Even in the small-scale upgrades I have started on, 250Q has shown itself to be stupendously expensive. However, anticipating that introducing quality will also mean we need less weapons, and therefore self-arming now seems viable. I'd like to see a system that favors this, considering the work, time, and CEO space needed [16:44] [WildEyes] 1. While you save money on the country end, your weapon and ammo corps suffer here... so i don't think this creates an imbalance, per-say... other than the fact that large CEOs are able to absorb expenses better than countries, as are their corporations. [16:44] [WildEyes] 2. Second, this option should be allowed only for countries and enterprises within your OWN account, in order to avoid the abuse of multiple accounts being created to simply supply cheap(er) weapons and ammo. [16:44] [WildEyes] 3. Third, this option should only be allowed in direct contracts, not the common market. [16:44] [WildEyes] 4. Fourth, there ought to be an option to directly contract to CEOs... in general. It's silly that you can contract a corp to your country but not to your CEO. [16:45] [WildEyes] 5. Fifth, this proposal is intended to provide a benefit to people willing to invest the time and energy into this way of self-arming. Those wanting to rapidly arm can do so on the world market, like they always have, and pay more... like they always have. [16:45] [WildEyes] done [16:46] [Jozi] lots to read. I saw this also on the forum. [16:47] [WildEyes] I didn't know if you had the chance to read what I wrote there or not, so I mostly re-pasted it here [16:47] [Jozi] I don't know what at cost means. We have a problem with sales under market price. [16:47] [Jozi] if you reduce the price, it is good for one side and bad for the other. [16:48] [Jozi] if both are your own countries, I don't see the point or I need to read carefully. [16:49] [WildEyes] I was thinking something like base price or minus other effects. If you keep it within one account the money still comes from the same place. CEOs are just more able to eat the losses on the production end than countries paying for high priced goods. I knew the suggestion was a long shot though [16:49] [WildEyes] at the very least, could you consider point 4 independantly? [16:50] [Jozi] I am just trying to understand what you ant to achieve and then find the best way to implemnt if it makes sense. [16:50] [Jozi] I think you assume : [16:50] [Jozi] 1. If you sell high quality, some money disappears? [16:51] [Jozi] 2. You whould like the enterprise to pay more and in fact subsidize the country. [16:51] [Jozi] is it true? [16:51] [WildEyes] 2 is true. 1 i need to qualify [16:52] [WildEyes] for #1, you don't technically lose money, but suppose you are subsidizing your own country by selling it weapons from your CEO: you do lose the 40% paid to country resources (assuming the corps aren't in your own countries also). [16:52] [WildEyes] so you do kind of get hurt on both ends [16:53] [Jozi] It could be that we should allow for the enterprise to move some money to the countries although this is already made easier with the direct trading. (exchange enterprise cash into a gold coins and sell the gold coin to get cash into the country). [16:55] [Jozi] Are we inventing a way to cheat these countries out of their 40%? [16:55] [WildEyes] Yes...  [16:55] [WildEyes] granted, the CEO gets less profit in the end also, but i'm trying to save in the middle [16:55] [WildEyes] actually, CEO ought to take a loss and the countries would still get 40%, jsut a less valuable 40%, but i'm done [16:57] [WildEyes] just like a country will always get its cut even if the CEO is suffering, but I feel like I'm belaboring and W3C would not support such an idea anyways [16:57] [Jozi] 30 seconds [16:57] [Laguna] Two hours almost up. [16:57] [Jozi] if there is a problem with the 40% or any other setting, we should discuss the problem. [16:58] [Jozi] Inventing ways to avoid them is only making the game more complex and only a very small group of people will be able to use these features. [16:59] [Jozi] I would like to keep the contracts clean and solve some problems we have already, add flexibility to contracts and as discussed before, allow quality settings. [17:00] [Jozi] if you think that money is lost when handling high quality as was discussed on the forums several months ago, then let me know and explain and we will look for it or explain better how it is done. [17:00] [Jozi] done [17:00] [WildEyes] thanks [17:01] * Laguna sets mode: -v WildEyes [17:01] [Laguna] Are you up for more, Jozi? [17:02] [Jozi] if there is more. I am not going anywhere. [17:02] * Laguna sets mode: +v Manny [17:02] [Manny] I have 2 follow-up questions and 1 suggestion [17:03] [Manny] 1- On product Q, could you please expand on your plans about non-military products/services Q. What is the difference between 100Q milk and 150Q milk, or 100Q hospital and 150Q hospital, and so on [17:03] [Manny] Q = Quality [17:03] [Manny] done [17:04] [Jozi] sorry. my phone was ringing. [17:05] [Jozi] currenly, themail influence of Q is in corporations. there, the output Q depends on the raw materials Q and on [17:05] [Jozi] the quality of the corporation. [17:05] [Jozi] in country, the averag Q of products has a slight influence on the welfare. [17:06] [Manny] how much influence and what about migration ? [17:06] [Jozi] this should increase but then, you should be able to purchase easily. [17:07] [Jozi] the welfare index has an influence on migration but Q is a weak factor. [17:08] [Jozi] I realize that there is here a need for more specific data. [17:08] [Manny] would you mind revealing the function of the welfare index ? [17:08] [Manny] please [17:09] [Jozi] we should start documenting many of these indexes. the problem is in the complexity, and procedures to prevent jumps and breaks. the time factor is harder to compute and your computations will differ from ours. [17:10] [Manny] we know the function of the defence index (not defensive), but welfare index has always remained a mystery [17:11] [Jozi] I will publish more on the welfare index with the other comments I promised. but this will be complex as it depends on the min. value of various other indexes, with a min. value and max value and also for a percentage, of some averages. [17:11] [Jozi] so this will be a long story. [17:11] [Manny] my education, health and transport index are very high [17:12] [Manny] okay thanks [17:12] [Jozi] I know of economists who meet for a week, in a large conference, to discuss a single parameter in their model. [17:12] [Jozi] I wiuld like to prevent it. [17:12] [Manny] back on product Q [17:12] [Manny] or mainly products [17:13] [Manny] it has come to me to realize that some products could not easily be stored for long periods of time, like food [17:13] [Manny] over time, the Q of non-military products stored should decrease/decay [17:14] [Manny] countries are able to order 6 months of milk for storage [17:14] [Jozi] If they could shoot, they wuld do it now. [17:14] [Jozi] someone will start a war against you. [17:14] [Manny] haha [17:15] [Jozi] The quality of military units will decline by 0.05 each game month. this is implemented now and may change in the future. [17:15] [Jozi] We know that it should be the case with most products and we have a column in our products table, describing the decay level per product. [17:16] [Manny] so its a matter of implementation then ? [17:16] [Jozi] all this will make sense when the purchasing of high level products by the country will have a great influence on for example, the welfare index so there will be an incentive to purchase such products. [17:17] [Manny]  [17:17] [Manny] the welfare index affects production levels in corporations, correct ? [17:17] [Jozi] once this is in place, then, the other side of it, is to let products decay. You cannot have the products decay while high quality is not doing much for you. [17:18] [Jozi] yes [17:18] [Manny] so let me try this [17:18] [Manny] right now i buy all country products at 100Q, my welfare index is currently 83 [17:19] [Manny] if i were to buy products 150Q, my welfare index would eventually increase, and my production levels would also follow [17:19] [Manny] therefore, i would make more revenues from corporations [17:19] [Manny] correct ? [17:20] [Jozi] yes but the influence of the product Q is slight. better look at you salary levels, transportation, EMPLOYMENY (no error this time), health, education and social security. [17:20] [Manny] also, quick question back on decrease of military units Q, the units would return to base 100, and not under 100 ? [17:20] [Jozi] EMPLOYMENT [17:21] [Jozi] they might return under 100 if the unit is under 100. [17:21] [Manny] Government Salary Index 55.23 [17:21] [Manny] but on the government salaries screen it says: The current Salary Factor is 220.0 [17:22] [Manny] index = factor ? [17:22] [Jozi] lousy unless the country is close to bankruptcy. [17:22] [Manny] i have 18T$ but i can barely breakeven [17:22] [Jozi] corprate salaries are probably very low. [17:23] [Manny] 398 [17:23] [Manny] is this very low ? [17:23] [Jozi] pump the welfare index up! [17:23] [Jozi] no 398 is not low. [17:23] [Manny] i dont know how [17:23] [Manny] General Salary Index 398.35 [17:23] [Manny] i assume this is the corporate salaries [17:23] [Jozi] we will publish more on the making of the welfare index. [17:24] [Manny] Social Security Quality Index 20.30 [17:24] [Jozi] did you sell your population recently? read the game news on this and the influence on the welfare index. [17:24] [Manny] how much does SS influence welfare ? [17:24] [Manny] i havent sold any pop [17:24] [Manny] i just recently passed over 31M [17:24] [Jozi] what about the empire? [17:24] [Manny] 1 country [17:24] [Jozi] lets leave it for now [17:24] [Laguna] Yes. Another topic. [17:25] [Jozi] you will see the index in more details. [17:25] [Manny] can i email you about his ? [17:25] [Manny] this [17:25] [Jozi] wait for our explanation on the forum. [17:25] [Manny] last item [17:25] [Manny] one suggestion that was seconded by other players [17:25] [Manny] Allow setting of default corp name or mass corp renaming [17:25] [Laguna] You mentioned military units will degrade, at first, at a rate of 0,05 per month. But will it degrade to a miminum of 100, or are going to fight with negative quality units? [17:26] [Manny] whiteboy added: I'll add to that mass anything renaming, i.e. military units, cities, forts, etc. [17:26] * Sam_Houston_ has left #jozichat [17:27] [Jozi] probably not under 50 or 70. You will probably need 100 days for 20 points. [17:28] [Jozi] mass anything renaming is a painful issue. old and represnts a lot of work. It is on our wish list. [17:28] [Manny] any timeline for this ? [17:28] [Jozi] not yet [17:29] [Manny] we could start with corps having default names [17:29] [Jozi] Laguna, is the point clear? [17:29] [Manny] something like (country name) (product name) [17:29] [Manny] instead of (random name) (product name) [17:29] * InannaYoMama Quit (Quit: ) [17:29] [Manny] (default name)(unit type) [17:30] [Jozi] Manny. you made your point. [17:30] [Manny] ok im done [17:30] * Laguna sets mode: -v Manny [17:30] * Manny Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]) [17:31] * Laguna sets mode: +v iki-ryo [17:31] [iki-ryo] he didn't even say thank you. gosh. [17:31] [iki-ryo] er [17:31] [iki-ryo] ^__^ [17:31] [iki-ryo] Actually, I have only one thing I have concern about, and it's same age old problem that has been around for eons and eons [17:32] [Jozi] o o [17:32] [iki-ryo] regarding high level worker shortages. I understand that you are trying to prevent players from having high population countries...but at the same time, some people do prefer having countries with a bit of chaos [17:33] [iki-ryo] like myself, so I understand that 300k per RL day hlw shortages should be expected [17:33] [iki-ryo] but the shortages exist in 20m pop, 40m pop, 60m pop. and I am finding that a significant portion of my time is transferring workers to level out the shortages. [17:34] [Jozi] I thought we solve it. we have introduced many changes that reduced the shortages and for a long time, I did not hear about it. [17:34] [iki-ryo] and I just simply want to mention it so that perhaps in the future it might be revisited [17:35] [Jozi] it could be, that recent increase in the sizes of corporations brought some of it back but this is the first time I hear about it. [17:35] [Jozi] I will check on Monday. [17:35] [Jozi] we have made some changes in the past and stopped when we saw the numbers improve. [17:36] [iki-ryo] in the past 3 rl months the only thing ive been doing in my countries is trying to get hlw. so needless to say i havent been playing much. so its been a concern. I know many poeple have this issue, but they consider it "normal" part of the game play so that might explain why no one has mentioned it [17:36] [iki-ryo] even i have gotten used to it as "normal" game play over the last ....who knows how long.. [17:36] [iki-ryo] anyways thank you for your time and consideration [17:36] [Jozi] I can set another round of tuning. I will check and if needed, we will tune coming Tuesday. [17:36] [iki-ryo] thats all iki had to say. ^___^ I appreciate that you came here and let us use your time. [17:37] [iki-ryo] thank you [17:37] * iki-ryo is now known as iki-ryo|atwork [17:37] [Jozi] the automation feature for the education, will make it much easier for players who choose to set it on. [17:37] * iki-ryo|atwork nods [17:37] [Jozi] thanks for joining. [17:37] [iki-ryo|atwork] ^__^ thanks for listening! off to work. bye~ [17:38] * Laguna sets mode: -v iki-ryo|atwork [17:38] * Laguna sets mode: +v WildEyes [17:38] [WildEyes] Hey again Jozi. Two things this time - first one is simple [17:39] [WildEyes] Have you given thought to the training/upgrade/maitinance of weapons and ammo in navies? Considering players don't deploy them and navies act like bases pretty much [17:39] [WildEyes] that leads me to assume navy weapons and ammo won't be upgradable like other stuff not deployed and sitting in bases [17:40] [WildEyes] qestion #1 ^^ [17:40] [WildEyes] question* [17:40] [Jozi] A navy will be like a military unit and youwill upgrade the whole navy at once, like you will upgrade an army division. [17:40] [WildEyes] ok cool [17:41] [Jozi] I do not see the problem. we will have to check what happens when you move weapons around between them and prevent the loss of quality. [17:42] [WildEyes] I just wanted to be sure they were taken care of since weapons in your navies still show up in the stockpile and the game docs/player consensus is that navy carriers are basically moving bases. If W3C has taken care of it already then there is no problem [17:43] [WildEyes] second question is unrelated to war. I spoke with tom in the simchat about a suggestion I made to introduce more automation features to share trading and investment funds. Do you know if any headway has been made with this, and if it would be possible to impliment some automation parameters like when to buy and sell stocks [17:44] [Jozi] I am not aware of any problem and nobody came to say that there is any problem. I will however check and make sure it works like I described. we plan to move navies into the military unit interface and remove any differences between navy units and other units. [17:45] [Jozi] Tom briought it up and it will be implemented between the large features. we try to share our time between large systems and small updates and corrections that occur all the time. [17:46] [Jozi] I will make sure it is not forgotten. [17:46] [WildEyes] thank you [17:46] [WildEyes] that's all for me [17:46] [Jozi] thanks. [17:46] * Laguna sets mode: -v WildEyes [17:47] [Laguna] This should be Wendy's turn (Inanna), but since she isn't here, I will present the proposition as well. [17:47] [Laguna] But I don't know any details. [17:48] [Laguna] Basically, what some players are asking is for a Battle Royalle World. [17:48] * CC Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [17:48] [Laguna] A new world with a diferent set of rules. [17:48] [Laguna] Before advacing the details and reasons behind this, I would like to know what are the problems related with a new world that operates diferently from the others. [17:50] [Jozi] A new world means a new server. We have hundreds of parameters per world that are easy to change but the question is of course: are the parameters she requests, within the capability of the current parameters or do we need to update the game sources and initiate new developments to make it work. [17:51] [Laguna] I would say the later. [17:51] [Jozi] rewrite the game? [17:51] [Laguna] Yes. [17:52] [Jozi] cute [17:52] * CC has joined #jozichat [17:54] [Jozi] ?? [17:55] [Laguna] I'm trying to figure what exactly cute means. [17:55] [Jozi] lets try to figure out what the new world should do. [17:57] [Laguna] Aparently, they want FB, but better... No WP and that all countries be a bunch of C3s, I guess that means no cash market. [17:57] [Laguna] I don't think they even know what they want. [17:58] [Jozi] so far I don't see much programming but FB has little WP now. [17:59] [Laguna] I'll just copy and paste: [17:59] [Laguna] Actually...i could see sim having multiple Battle Royale worlds perhaps set up so you and your friends could sign up for private battles or you could play in the general Battle Royale world. [17:59] [Laguna] --- [17:59] [Laguna] We even suggested a battle royale world where the top 16 (or top X) from each of the other worlds would battle each other during one month. [17:59] [Laguna] Last man standing contest with big coins prize at the end. [17:59] [Laguna] This would something like this: [17:59] [Laguna] 1st week: everyone starts with 1 protected country and can expand. [17:59] [Laguna] Week 2-4: full war mode. No protected countries. Empire vs Empire wars. etc. [17:59] [Laguna] --- [18:00] [Laguna] No WP, no Feds, and a 1 month time limit...now that would be fun. Empires would function as Feds do now. [18:00] [Laguna] --- [18:00] [Jozi] is it on the forum. I did not see it. [18:00] [Laguna] Yes. [18:00] [Laguna] General Forum, Letter to Santa (Gamemaster): Wishlist for 2010 (Little Upsilon). [18:01] [Jozi] Our developers raised the idea of a competition world for a limited period and suggested smaller worlds and last man standing runs for a month or so. [18:03] [Laguna] If the thought did not materialize, you encountered some problems or gave it a low priority. Which were the problems? [18:05] [Jozi] focus. we cannot do 50 things at the same time. yet. [18:06] [Jozi] we hope that more people will contribute and we will do much more but resources are limited and we have to spend some of our time making money, consulting. [18:07] [Laguna] Always good. [18:08] [Jozi] when we decide to go for something we should go for it and make it. we should not diversify too much because then, nothing gets done. [18:08] [Jozi] I do like that discussion. [18:08] [Jozi] I will read in more details. [18:08] [Laguna] But to the proponents of the battle world, on a scale of 0 to 10, how probaly is it going to happen in the next year? [18:09] [Jozi] It seems that we are slowing down here. My daughter just came in and asked if dinner will be today or tomorrow. what should i say? [18:09] [Laguna] Today, because I want to eat too. [18:09] [Jozi] let me sleep on it. we have a battle world but you mean a world that restarts once a month or so. [18:10] [Laguna] That's what the people wants. [18:10] * Laguna sets mode: -m [18:10] [Jozi] so I will sleep on it. [18:10] [Laguna] Eat and sleep well, Jozi. [18:11] [Jozi] I promised some answers. they will be on the forum this week. [18:11] [Laguna] I need to post the log and summarize it. [18:11] [Jozi] I may put some remarks and question about this battle world on the forum too, adding to that same discussion. [18:12] [Laguna] I will send some feedback regarding the new homepage design. [18:12] [Jozi] thanks everybody. [18:12] [Laguna] Thanks for showing up. Leave thoughts here: https://www.simcountry.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-auth.cgi?file=/1/14425.html&lm=1263151245
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| Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 08:35 pm Well moderated Laguna.
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| Monday, January 11, 2010 - 08:18 pm I just want to say I am disappointed that my ideas on Battle Royale were quoted but I was not given any credit for them
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| Tuesday, January 12, 2010 - 04:57 pm Aren't we all, Manny? Aren't we all? He read the thread. He knows who said what.
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| | Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 03:37 pm Authentication ErrorYou can only post messages if you are logged on as player of simcountry.You must also have a country in one of the worlds. New members can join the forum about 48 hours after registration.
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| Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 01:30 pm Wut. That was the mother of all bumps...
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| Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 02:05 pm 10/01/10? Such a pretty number. Did we do one on the 10/10/10? /me waits for the next "authentication error" bump
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| Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 07:55 pm that was cool, they were like busting into this and that. Does this happen anymore?
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| Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 11:10 pm No. The IRC server we did this belonged to someone who has quit the game and closed shop. This could be done in JWChat - SC's adopted chat protocol -, but... One only needs the will to do it. And I don't. But I do wonder how Jozi is doing from time to time. Afterall, he wasn't exactly young when we did these.
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