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Friday, October 9, 2009 - 02:32 pm  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33237202/ns/politics-white_house?GT1=43001 Headline: ‘Humbled’ Obama wins Nobel Peace Prize Committee says president gives world’s people ‘hope for a better future’ Will somebody nominate me? I whiped my ass with single-ply yesterday instead of that evil, wasteful, capitalistic double-ply. Has the Nobel Prize become the consolation prize for losing the Olympics? BC
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| Friday, October 9, 2009 - 04:06 pm Funny sense of humour, those Swedes.
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| Friday, October 9, 2009 - 05:29 pm Hmmmmm now I am not american so I am sure everything Obama does makes the News over here but........ what exactly has he done? Seems nothing has been done to me. A few words spoken but no actual deeds done.
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| Friday, October 9, 2009 - 07:37 pm Even Obama said he doesn't feel he did anything to deserve the prize. However, we should always be proud when Americans win Nobel Peace prizes. I think it shows how much more the U.s. has become respected since GWB left office.
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| Friday, October 9, 2009 - 09:08 pm This is in NO way a racist comment however... The only thing he has, or will ever do, is be the first african-american president of the USA. It may be a partisanist (hey I just made a new word  ) comment but in NO way racist. He was just lucky enough to follow Bush. Making it an easy campaign for him. All he needed was a simple statement, "change". I am a republican. However, old G Dubya was one of the worst presidents in the history of this great nation. So if you offer "change", after 2 terms of Bush, Anything is better. Or so the masses thought. Honestly though I don't see any "change" just lots of empty promises. 
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| Friday, October 9, 2009 - 09:51 pm Change after two terms of bush... Isn't that the sales angle of a discount prostitute?
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| Friday, October 9, 2009 - 10:19 pm @MoP: What source do you receive your primary news from?
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| Friday, October 9, 2009 - 10:34 pm Can we at the very least all agree that President Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize ISN'T a bad thing for the USA.
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| Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 01:10 am True. Its not a bad thing for the US. Just not earned by the recipient. @Alexandria I said I was a republican. So where do you think, silly? Fox news fair and balanced.
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| Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 01:42 am Ok... well the Nobel is obviously a NWO prize. lol "Here! look over here! look at the funny little puppet over here... he won a prize WHOO HOOO!"
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| Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 01:44 am Not bad for the U.S., bad for the prize ( which used to be selective) and bad for big O. It only highlights the fact he hasn't done anything.
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Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 01:49 am
OMG! They gave it to him so he WOULD do something great? What a bunch of freaks.
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| Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 02:13 am "Reduce nuclear arms." Who would want that? Oh, wait. I believe Ronald Reagan proposed eliminating them in Iceland. "Ease tensions with the Muslim world". What was Yitzhak Rabin thinking? And Anwar Sadat? Better that they are gone. "Stress diplomacy and cooperation rather than unilateralism". Hell no. Let's invade a few more countries in the Mid East. Shoot first, ask questions later. Thanks for the investments Solomon.
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| Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 12:21 pm You are very welcome Neidy. You ready to punch back in? _______________________________________________ Reduce nuclear arms? The 'former' Soviets are building a new class of nuclear weapons and you can bet your last dollar that they are state of the art, fly at over mach 3(probably 5), at below 200 feet and stealth. The current 'government' is radically and incredibly irresponsible. I wish I could blame it on 'Mr Cult of Personality' but I can't. He's not in control, he's mob control. ...and just for our information, the last time history saw a cult of personality figure like this 60 million people died. Anybody remember Mao? The Chinese people friggin loved him! Propaganda is amazing. That was only the 1960s this shit still happens guys. The same ruling class that controlled GW Bush is still in control and they keep ramping their globalist agenda up each time providing us a new personality to blame and a means to divide the people.
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| Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 02:40 pm To be fair, the Nobel "Peace" Prize has always been a bit of a farce in comparison to the real awards; Physics, Chemistry and Biology. It's purely a token award. But with the likes of Obama and Gore on the list of laureates, this is hardly surprising. Personally, I find this to be an affront to the likes of Einstein, Planck, Thomson and Rutherford; people who won the award on their own genius and merit.
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| Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 04:50 pm That Obama won the award is an affront to the men and women of the world who have put their lives on the line for human rights around the world. They have had real accomplishments that should have been recognized over Obama's "potential." That they Peace prize has become a means to encourage people is obscene and lowers both the meaning and value of the prize.
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| Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 04:58 pm Today's Nobel Peace Committee would have given the award to Chamberlain, Hitler, Daladier, and Mussolini for maintaining "peace in our time" after Munich. This prize is ridiculous.
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| Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 05:23 pm Plato... we need to hang out lol
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| Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 06:37 am Hey! Wilt Chamberlain did a lot for basketball after Munich. Can you say single game point scoring record??? :P BC
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| Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 07:40 am Be bitter about it, make claims about the NWO, but you should all at least be able to be honest with yourselves in recognizing that the leader of the free world has recognized that torture is wrong, that communication is more powerful than violence and that the power of our example is more important than the example of our power. Nobody this year has done more than Obama to promote peace and de-arming, we can live in a world without nuclear weapons and pre-emptive wars. You can blame Obama for the fact that we don't or you can support him for actually pushing toward such an ambition.
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| Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 08:40 am We are honest with ourselves. Lip service that torture is wrong and continues the practice? That's an issue. Communication is more powerful than violence but send 17,000 of 30,000 more troops, that are now planned, to Afghanistan... and now we're talking about Pakistan? I guess we should appreciate him more. I would be up for giving him an Academy Award but not so much a Nobel Peace Prize. lol Peace in words only is not peace. Actions speak louder than words.
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| Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 01:59 pm Have to appreciate the irony of being awarded a peace prize by the Vikings, though...
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| Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 11:11 pm LoL Klar
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| Monday, October 12, 2009 - 03:39 am i think Bono should have won it.
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| Monday, October 12, 2009 - 07:28 am Sonny? Didn't he die in a skiing accident?
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| Monday, October 12, 2009 - 10:26 am No, silly! Cher! (Share)
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| Monday, October 12, 2009 - 10:32 am Bono, an avid skier, was reported missing by his wife, Mary Whitaker, about 4:30 p.m. Monday, about three hours after she last saw him, authorities said. The body of the California congressman was found about two hours later by the ski patrol at the Heavenly Ski Resort on the Nevada-California state line, some 55 miles (88 km) southwest of Reno, Nevada. He had been coming to the resort for at least 20 years. I think they are talking about Bono the guy from U2.
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| Monday, October 12, 2009 - 10:40 am You ever stop and think they gave Obama the "Peace" Prize because He is the leader of the USA. Do you think that just for a second it would affect his decisions as a president. I thought that anyone in any postion in the government couldn't accept "Gifts". Could this Gift that they gave him possibly make him think twice about military actions toward any other nation. Could it have him play a softer role?
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| Monday, October 12, 2009 - 10:55 am um... that's the joke
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| Monday, October 12, 2009 - 02:29 pm the Irish singer, you ding a lings. lol
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| Monday, October 12, 2009 - 06:07 pm @Parsifal Bono certainly would have been a more deserving choice. "Could this Gift that they gave him possibly make him think twice about military actions toward any other nation. Could it have him play a softer role?" The only way Obama could possibly play a softer role, would be if he sucked off Putin, while Al-Qaeda runs a train on him from behind.
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| Monday, October 12, 2009 - 10:36 pm LMAO
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| Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 12:28 am LMAO!!!!
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| Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 07:21 am I've seen it, it's a tour de force about a recent example of successful mass propaganda in action. Don't forget to see fall of the republic which comes out soon. What's changed since is my question? The last letter of the country in which the "other" party is now warmongering towards? WMD's, where have I heard that one before? Let's pray for helpless Israel and their unregulated stockpile of nukes, eh? Obama the man of peace...doublethink in action. Hmm, 2 official wars, plus columbia, pakistan, the United States of America, god knows what else. why not make it an even dozen? Any bets on the promised troop withdrawal from iraq? How about a 2050 over-under. How about # of increase in afghanistan, we'll say 40k over-under within a year. Obama has renewed rendition and torture and kept gitmo, but you'll never hear a word about it in the american media. Even the "liberal" best bud gore vidal just said we'll have military dictatorship soon and obama is a fraud. Japan has elected a non-pliant gov't that has promised to resist american hegemony. Russia and China have strong ties to Iran and each other. Those plus the arabs and even France are in favor of dumping the dollar. The battle lines are being drawn as we speak. It appears the anglo-american empire is going for broke now, pun intended. War is peace, duh.
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| Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 10:52 am It's a mad mad world
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| Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 01:20 pm Fitting song. 8Caps8 nicely put. And if were going down were taking the rest of you with us. Do or Die. The Native English Civ's have been through it a couple of times in recent years (WWII, IRA), so we should be able to keep a stiff upper lip by watching clips of the London and Coventry Blitz. I just hope the immigrant population can keep the attitude of 'one for all and all for one' otherwise we'll not just be broke but we'll also have rivers of blood. /me polishes Excalibur
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| Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 07:26 pm That's right. The spotlights of this new century, at least the first half, belong to the BRIC. Brazil. Russia. India. China. BRIC. The question for me is if these four countries will surpass France's, UK's, USA's, etc. GDPpc. They have the natural resources for such, but they need human capital for the next stage. The predominant opinion among my peers goes along the lines that Obama doesn't deserve the award yet. He has nothing to show.
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| Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 11:08 pm We're going to have to get beyond the point of the west supporting former Soviet republics against Russia in an attempt to keep them from ever again exerting their dominance in the region. For this reason I count Russia out except for war. I do not believe the British Empire ever really relinquished control of India to the Indians. India is part of the Western Bloc to this day for this reason.(just my opinion) Brazil I would bet is hopelessly in debt to the world bank getting their resources robbed.(because that's what we do to Latin America) If they aren't I'd like to know how they escaped it when the rest of the hemisphere didn't. China... Hmm well I'm convinced the Cultural Revolution is a NWO social experiment first off. If I'm right it's already a conquered nation just waiting to be united with the rest of the world into our new super state. If I'm wrong than things are going very poorly for the West as China and Russia have entered into a new phase in military cooperation and England and her subordinates will not be able to maintain dominance in Eurasia.
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| Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 05:09 am Don't count Russia out yet. Who wants to bet that the Russians have pipeline problems again this winter? They have figured out how to use energy to get their tentacles into Western Europe.
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| Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 11:30 am If they(nwo) implode the world economy it will be in the winter time. (I hate evil people) They're always imploding one country or another, but they've never done a whole planet before. We'll see what the global eugenic fascists do next. We're almost done with our turn... information warfare. In America I think they will move their 'knight' and it will be forced inoculations, containing the disease with a 6 or 9 month incubation period, and go from Avian Flu to Swine Flu. Hell it will probably be global. Sorry... I just know how evil these f***ers are. We can not let them get control of the whole world and we must wrestle the conquered countries from them, one of them being America. (checking topic before I click [post]... Good- General: This is why I'm so proud of the world we live in) ...that'll work.
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| Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 03:21 pm there's also the issue of demographics. russia is losing pop as is much of western europe. (okay you young studs, get to work). without pop you can't produce as much and pay for social programs. china in the next 20 years will have an aging pop with their economy leveling in about 20 yrs. by then they'll be the dominant economy in the world. brazil and india will continue to grow with india educating more of their pop. if sub-sahara could get their s**t together they could be a world economic power, but that's not probable. so, india, even though a mess socially will be the power...unless they get blown up by pakistan. and the US will continue to have bases around the world to protect the world from aggression.lol and thumb up my nose.
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| Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 06:56 pm F**k it. nuke them all!!! Maybe I should change my name??? LOL
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| Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 10:17 pm LOL MoP! Just make sure you give that speech to the Right to Nuke Organization, you'll be fine! Oh... and... Thanks for tolerating me guys -by the way... I heard about forced inoculations on REGULAR cable TV.
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| Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 10:20 pm So.. why the hype over Brazil? Is it the impressive land area?
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| Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 11:54 pm MoP WOW!! what a wonderful idea. nuke 3-4 billion people and we can start all over again. lol. just think of all the problems we could solve. less fossil fuel used, or we could walk more with factories destroyed. no problems with taxes, social programs, much smaller armies, less problems with communications since there wouldn't be much. maybe we'll give it a try someday. only those very remote areas of the world would not be effected, etc. a good plan. @SG Brazil does have a large land mass but also has incredible natural resources and a young pop. also, a fairly stable gov't and openess to business. lot's of debt. you know, the best way to stay solvent is to be in debt to your eyeballs. i mean what are they going to do, foreclose on your country. south american countries have been doing this for years and the world bank aka USA keep bailing them out. course USA is being bailed out by China.
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| Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 01:49 am Here comes the water. All I knew and all I believed are crumbling images that no longer comfort me. I scramble to reach higher ground, some order and sanity, or something to comfort me. So I take what is mine,and hold what is mine, suffocate what is mine, and bury what's mine. Soon the water will come and claim what is mine. I must leave it behind, and climb to a new place now. This ground is not the rock I thought it to be. Thought I was high, and free. I thought I was there divine destiny. I was wrong. This changes everything. The water is rising up on me. Thought the sun would come deliver me, but the truth has come to punish me instead. The ground is breaking down right under me. Cleanse and purge me in the water.
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| Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 03:51 am cool. sounds like the water is a metaphor for salvation. we put our faith and hope in the temporal.
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Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 10:59 am
Yes. Actually they do. It happened to my country in 1929.
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| Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 03:09 pm @SG i'm interested in that. tell me more. what country. was world bank in place, etc.
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| Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 11:14 pm Well first we would have to determine to which entity what given country is in debt to. The international banking system is like a hydra, you can be in debt to one or several of many heads. In my country it's morphed into what we call the federal reserve. The same people are behind them all, Warburgs, Rothschild banking empire, Rockefeller etc. They form a banking conglomerate. I don't have anything like freedom of information act documents regarding 1929. The vast majority of information is based on personal testimony from people who hold and held important positions. "From now on, depressions will be scientifically created." Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh Sr. 1913 Lets see if John Perkins can shed some light on the subject. After all it was his job to bribe Latin American leaders not to pay their debt and bankrupt their own countries.
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| Friday, October 16, 2009 - 10:59 am I'm sorry Parsifal, I know that's weak. I just don't have very many specific details about America's bankruptcy in 1929.
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| Friday, October 16, 2009 - 02:49 pm thought you might have been referring to a European country. yes, 1929 was a disaster, but i would't say the country was forclosed on, even though the devastation was terrible. i watched the John Perkins piece (very interesting as conspiracy theories go) and his conclusions are plausable and based on possible truths. no doubt the US has been in the middle of coups, bribes, etc. over the years. my issue with him is that he doesn't really give solutions other than "getting involved" to turn it around. nor does he talk about what would be the unintended consequencies of turning the whole thing upside down. i live in Houston and i know that if for some reason all the international oil and construction companies were thrown out of third world countries, Houston would be a ghost town over night. i think we have to lay some of the blame at the feet of corrupt politician in third world countries that line their own pockets with swag at the expense of their countrymen. and when they've been successful in throwing us out, within a couple of years they invite us back, cuz they can't handle it themselves. to me, the biggest challenge for the US in the future is China. they're gobbling up natural resources right and left and will dominate world markets in ten or fifteen years. and do you think they're going to worry about the poor peasants in Ghana, etc.? hardly. i think the answer to the third world lies in education. that's what made the US a super power. we educated the masses and we see the same thing happening in India and China. that's the only way you can build a stable economy and gov't. and if the US doesn't come up with a solution to our high drop out rate and incarceration prison rate, we end up being third world ourselves. but i have hope. the genius of our system is that we have been innovative to change and we can solve these tough problems. our system of checks and balances is a system that embraces a tension of ideas. it is for us together, to rationally address these questions and bring about positive change.
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| Friday, October 16, 2009 - 04:35 pm What good does educating the masses do? Also educate them in what? The more you know the more you expect. In India, up until 5 years ago the masses didn't have TV and life went on. Now the masses have TV, they can see what they hav'nt got. Now life stands still. Let alone the environmental impact of people wanting more. As for your high drop out rate and incarceration prison rate you should blame that on the people who control what on your TV, in your music, scenario's in a Video Game and anything else that influences kids in a bad way.
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| Friday, October 16, 2009 - 08:10 pm Some say the end is near. Some say we'll see armageddon soon. I certainly hope we will. I sure could use a vacation from this Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of Freaks Here in this hopeless f**king hole we call LA The only way to fix it is to flush it all away. Any f**king time. Any f**king day. Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay. Fret for your figure and Fret for your latte and Fret for your hairpiece and Fret for your lawsuit and Fret for your prozac and Fret for your pilot and Fret for your contract and Fret for your car. It's a Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of Freaks Here in this hopeless f**king hole we call LA The only way to fix it is to flush it all away. Any f**king time. Any f**king day. Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay. Some say a comet will fall from the sky. Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves. Followed by faultlines that cannot sit still. Followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits. Some say the end is near. Some say we'll see armageddon soon. I certainly hope we will cuz I sure could use a vacation from this Silly shit, stupid shit... One great big festering neon distraction, I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied. Learn to swim. Mom's gonna fix it all soon. Mom's comin' round to put it back the way it ought to be. Learn to swim. F**k L Ron Hubbard and F**k all his clones. F**k all those gun-toting Hip gangster wannabes. Learn to swim. F**k retro anything. F**k your tattoos. F**k all you junkies and F**k your short memory. Learn to swim. F**k smiley glad-hands With hidden agendas. F**k these dysfunctional, Insecure actresses. Learn to swim. Cuz I'm praying for rain And I'm praying for tidal waves I wanna see the ground give way. I wanna watch it all go down. Mom please flush it all away. I wanna watch it go right in and down. I wanna watch it go right in. Watch you flush it all away. Time to bring it down again. Don't just call me pessimist. Try and read between the lines. I can't imagine why you wouldn't Welcome any change, my friend. I wanna see it all come down. suck it down. flush it down.
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| Friday, October 16, 2009 - 08:27 pm @nix-- no doubt that media, etc. impacts our values. the dominant culture in US says that what's important is status and stuff. ask the typical middle class US and for that matter the underclass, what the biggest stressor they have in their lives. the lack of time will be up near the top. why, because we are looking for happiness in all the wrong places and we run so fast that our shadow can't keep up with us. we hide in our addictions and our "have to have's". spirituality, in whatever form is of little value to many because we're obsessed with filling our time with things that in the greater sceme of things aren't important. i don't think there's anything inherently wrong with wanting more. it's about what we want. and if it's "stuff" and addictions and they don't work we often turn inward in depression, anger, or take a nihilistic view of the world. and there's good reason for this. who are we, only one person? the problems seem overwhelming and we feel helpless to change things. our tendency is to want to nuke the world and start over again. but at our core, we know that's not the answer. as to education. it's proven that education is the one factor that will get people out of poverty. not just affluence, but to give persons the ability to see beyond themselves, to get jobs, build homes, businesses and a sound economy and government. without education, we just screw ourselves deeper into the mire of isolation and poverty and disease. education gives one the opportunity to be at the decision makers table. whether it's in our local political process, teaching others, in industry, religion, or every other venue of change and decision making. no one will listen to you if you can't articulate the problem and offer alternative solutions to issues. and while i'm at it, there's a difference between problems and issues. i do community organizing and i've learned that a problems is multifacited and doesn't have one answer. an "issue" is a small part of the larger problem and has a winnable well defined solution that people can get behind. it may be as simple as getting a stop sign put up in your neighborhood or as complex as passing a bond issue for better schools. there are answers, if you don't opt out. and after all, what are we here for?
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| Friday, October 16, 2009 - 11:38 pm @MP very powerful poetry. water can cleanse. do you believe in the cleansing water?
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| Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 01:19 am I wish I could take credit for it. However. I just posted some song lyrics that I found relevant to the discussion. The artist who wrote these songs must believe, on some level, that water cleanses. It is reoccurring throughout his body of work. However. If you are talking about baptism... On a spiritual level, I believe he is angry at, or feels abandoned by God. Can anyone guess the artist or genre?
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| Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 02:17 am Aenema by Tool. Metal. Hugs and respect Jo
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| Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 02:24 am Nice Jo. You a fan? or Iain?
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| Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 02:29 am Ooops ... Let's just say I have an eclectic taste (and instant access to wiki) Hugs and respect Jo
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| Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 04:29 am @MP-- i agree that he's angry. but sometimes in our anger we reach out to things that don't seem congruent. you're probably right about him. i'm too old to know about him. but i'm always looking for the possibility of new beginnings. water, whether baptism or some other form of cleansing can be seen as a way of washing away the past and even our childish beliefs in "the gimme god" and embrace something more lasting and transcendent. that requires that we allow ourselves to sink into the murky waters of unknowing. @Jo you are such a fox. i never know when you're going to turn up. Hugs and respect to you too.
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| Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 04:40 am /me hugs Parsifal @ MoP ... I'd quote some Floyd, but it isn't the same without the music, so it will have to be Leonard Cohen ... "First we take Manhatten ... then we take Berlin" Hugs and respect Jo
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| Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 04:59 am @MoP--well i listened/watched Aenema. yes, he's pissed. but sometimes even in nihilism there's a thread of hope and a look towards re-creation. the creature seems to be trying to come to final creation and the water possibly acts as a medium for making the creature evolve. but there's something missing and we wonder if there was more time to evolve, whether it would turn into a fully evolved human. but the evolution is stopped when the bald man takes the canister and throws it against the wall and the creation dies. lots of interesting questions. who's the bald man? is the evolving creation, his baby? why did he throw the cannister against the wall? is he angry with his own imperfect creation? what do you think? i know, i think too much, but it's an interesting piece/production.
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Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 10:55 am
What theory? It was his job. I pretty much think that it isn't theoretical. I guess if I told you about my job we could call it a conspiracy theory too. Are we going to disbelieve Perkins because we didn't actually work next to him?
If our economy is built on the backs of foreign slaves maybe we should go with the ghost town. Either that or we turn our OWN LABORS into a great nation.
Hard fact: Venezuela didn't have schools because of being raped economically by foreign corporations. Same thing with the hospitals.(according to Chavez) How are they to get education then? A strong leader comes along (Hugo) kicks Exxon Mobile out and stops the exploitation of his people and natural resources. This is the first step to even affording schools for an educated population. I find it troubling that we will default to 'conspiracy theory' when we are tipped off to evils done by our own country. There is no reason for a defense mechanism and with it there is no repair of the situation.
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| Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 03:03 pm @SG no doubt US business interests and military interests have often gone hand in hand and have dealt immorally. but it takes two or more sides to form a conspiracy and to be complicite in an act. no doubt US interests have maintained puppets in many countries over the years. and they've taken them out by force. but often US aid to underdeveloped countries is diverted by corrupt officials within the country with money from natural resources funneled off to a small elite group. and yes, they may be in bed with the US corp/military/cia but they still have a choice as to how they will treat their countrymen. let's see what Chavez does with the money that's taken in now that they have more control. it may be a model for other countries. but the history of third world countries didn't just start with US intervention in the last 50 years. it goes back hundreds of years and has it roots in european colonialism. there is an international law that prohibits multi-national companies from bribing country officials. the reason for this is that in the past that was the way business was done. the penalties are quite steep. a local ceo of a large oil company was sent to prison a few years ago for his role in bribing Saddam when sanctions were in place. even though he was in his 80/s and ill he went to prison. but does bribery go on elsewhere. i'm sure it does. and not every country adhere to these laws? i doubt that China does. when companies want to do business in a country and they go make a deal with the government, should they put stipulations on how the money will be used and what sanctions should they put on the use of the money if its not used in the way designated by the agreement. some points to consider for our discussion: 1. there have been immoral acts commited by both multi-nationals, their countries and the officials of those countries. 2. laws are in place setting penalties for bribes and other illegal acts. multi-nationals should be held to these standards 3. no such laws exist in most third world nations 4. in negotiations w/ countries over use of nat res etc. what should be the criteria for such uses? should sanctions be placed on leaders in those countries that do not adhere to these agreements? and who should enforce those sanctions? world court, cia, mob, military? 5. in negotiating contracts with a country, who should the mult-national negotiate? who has the power to make the deal and enforce the deal? Perkins makes a compelling argument and i'm sure much of it is true. but it's only one side of the story (an important part). but it wraps up the issue in a neat package that cannot bring into focus all the facets of the issue. thanks to you for your insight.
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| Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 03:13 pm Meanwhile hundreds of millions are still impoverish deliberately. Lets see where Hugo is spending the money: Venezuela paid, in the last eight months, 60 percent of its debt with the International Monetary Fund (IMF), said a report of the Central Bank of Venezuela (CBV) released Tuesday by the local press. By Guillermo Parra-Bernal April 14 (Bloomberg) -- Venezuela said it paid off $3 billion in loans owed to the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank this week, ending ties to two multilateral lenders it says curtailed its "economic sovereignty" for decades. One more... 15 April 2007 | 00:27 | FOCUS News Agency CARACAS. Venezuela has paid off all its debts to the International Monetary Fund and World Bank and told them goodbye after fiercely criticizing the institutions for policies it claims have perpetuated poverty. "My dear Sirs at the World Bank, Sirs at the International Monetary Fund goodbye to you. Venezuela is free ... and sovereign" Finance Minister Rodrigo Cabezas told the state TV broadcaster Saturday "We are closing a historic cycle of indebtedness" Cabezas said, adding that Venezuela "does not have any debts with the institutions. By your statements you would think that I, or Perkins, was the only one saying this stuff. Oh, and WHAT law? If there even is one it's obviously not working! lol You know what though? I'm okay with what ever positions Americans take, the system of oppression is not sustainable.
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| Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 03:46 pm And colonialism... What's the big difference here? The British sucking the Spanish dry? What exactly has changed? The conflict that ended in 1604 between the England and Spain, that had begun in 1585 was a Spanish defeat. Remember the whole sinking of the armada thing?
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| Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 04:23 pm See? you learn something new everyday... at least I do for example did you know...? I didn't.
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| Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 05:25 pm the name of the act is the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. i will be signing off for a few days, but i'd like to continue the dialogue.
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| Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 01:24 am well, i'm back. while i was out of town, i did some research on Venezuela and Perkins. let me prefice by saying i see both sides of these issues and know that most parties (corps, US and country officials) can't claim clean hands. ex. there is no universal acceptance of Perkins espec. by the NSA who catagorically deny his involvement in black hat ops. thus, with that kind of disagreement, it would indicate that we must consider Perkins ideas, a conspiracy theory.
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| Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 01:32 am here's an interesting article on ven education reform. it'll be interesting to see if it works. http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/4734
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| Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 01:40 am this one is about Venzuela making deals w/ Russia and China. also, other countries seem ready to belly up and make deals giving Ven 50-85% of revenue or is that profit? hum.. China and Russia are planning on investing up to 36bill in the projects. that will be interesting. wonder what will happen if he tries to take over their operations. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=aPmr3eR8stD4 it's my understanding that EX and CONPHIL are going to abandon arbitration. what good is arbitration if Chavez says screw you to the arbitrator. i'm going to check with my Houston contacts about what the provisions of the contract were. i'm sure i won't get all the details, but it might be interesting to get another view. the next few years will be very interesting.
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| Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 08:00 am There is no universal acceptance of the Mafia espec. by the Gambino family who catagorically deny their involvement in organized crime. thus, with that kind of disagreement, it would indicate that we must consider the prosecuting attorney's ideas, a conspiracy theory.
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| Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 03:31 pm and there were/are some who would say that the Gambino family has done some good (not me) but that doesn't legitimize the evil they've done. the same would go for the NSA, the World Bank, the CIA, the US military, etc. there are many, maybe most who would say that these entities are what have worked in the interest of US citizens and the betterment of all humankind. one of the world bank's stated goals is to help underdeveloped countries build infrastucture, etc. to bring persons out of poverty and to help all humankind. there is much truth in this, but as humans, we have a dark side. transparency and accountability are things we need but tend to avoid. there are also levels of legitimacy with institutions. we tend to love to embrace conspiracy theories; whether it's the CIA, the Catholic church, Free Masonry, Socialism, etc. conspiracy therories make it easier for us to explain very complex issues and to spin subjective events/facts/experiences. in our desire to find meanings and factual understandings we blur the nuance and take hardened positions that cannot look at other possibilities. CT's can help with that by shedding new light but can also blind us to alternative explanations. CT's tend not to embrace dichotomies. thanks for your goading insight. lol. your turn SG
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Friday, October 23, 2009 - 11:16 am
Sorry... I had to stop there... um... what do we chalk that up to? Being naive? Willful denial? Like what they say is what they do. This reminds me of Galaxy Quest where the aliens have no concept of lying. We obviously live in different worlds. In my world I can only find examples of the world bank CAUSING poverty. Yeah, I stopped reading there and I'm not going to continue. (no offense, but you ate the blue pill.)
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| Friday, October 23, 2009 - 05:14 pm fair enough. thanks for the conversation
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| Friday, October 23, 2009 - 08:15 pm sorry, i don't accept that there is only one human interpretation of truth.
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| Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 11:43 am Thank you for being polite Truth is fixed. It is not affected by what you or I choose to believe. Truth stands in and of itself and doesn't need us to believe or disbelieve in order to exist. If we see the truth for any other thing than what it really is then we do not have the truth, we only think that we do but the TRUTH is that we don't. lol The examples are endless. Here's just one. I choose to believe red means go and green means stop. I believe this as hard as I can until I am completely convinced. What is the truth? What will happen if I choose to behave on my belief that red means go? Will the world magically change to conform to me or will I not have the truth and be going against the grain of traffic when I get out there? We can pick and choose what we believe but we can not choose what the truth actually is. Even if we change the meaning of red and green to make them conform to our new 'truth' the truth really is that red did mean stop and greed did mean go. Unchangeable.
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| Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 03:55 pm i was concerned that you left for good. that would be a loss for both of us. i'm not concerned with whether we convince one another of something but that we create new meanings out of the conversation and that we respect one another. even though i believe devoutly in God, Christ, and humanity's dark side, i don't know for sure of that being truth. it works for me and for many others. but i know that those concepts have resulted in the death of millions throughout the centuries, because we latched onto dogmatic beliefs that were considered TRUTH and resulted in devastation for millions. but that applies to almost all ideas that we latch onto TRUTH, whether religious, political, or even sceintific. i strongly believe that there are truly evil people in the world, but even those persons are sometimes historically rehabilitated by revisionist history. ex--Hitler, Stalin etc. i certainly agree with you "we only think we do but the TRUTH is that we don't. lol" i haven't seen Matrix in some time but when presented with a red pill or a blue pill, i would choose neither. that too is a choice, but i ask myself, "who made Fishbine god?" are there other choices? and why does one way give enlightenment while the other gives eternal slumber?
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| Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 08:47 pm i tend to view reality through the lens of universal myths. this comes out of the writing of Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell, who speak of certain myths being universal to cultures. ex.--the myth of Parsifal in search of the Holy Grail. Parsi sets out to find the meaning of life and ends up at Grail Castle. at one point he is asked "who does the Grail serve". either not having the answer nor wanting to look stupid he says he doesn't know. he then sets out on his quest to find the Grail with it's salvation, enlightenment, happiness, etc. after many years, he returns to Grail Castle and is asked the same question. viewing multiple realities on his journey he now answers that the Grail serves "the Fisher King". he spends the rest of his life in the place of beginning. no definitive answers, just bliss and service to the Grail and the Fisher King. this story and theme are carried out throughout cultures. the answer to the question is always a mystery to always be embraced without a need for certainty.
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| Sunday, October 25, 2009 - 12:34 am Oh yeah, Solomon? I would like to see you refute this evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
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| Sunday, October 25, 2009 - 01:26 am the most boring 3:33min in my life. jeez, i've been Rick Rolled. leave it to LG. how many times for you LG.
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| Sunday, October 25, 2009 - 02:08 am Dammit, Parsifal, you didn't had to ruin the surprise for Solomon! I wanted to rick rolled him so bad... I will take solace in the fact that I had at least one victim. The Fates adore me, so I've only been rick rolled once. /me looks at Parsifal and notices "you fucking bastard, you've ruined my conversation. I want compensation" look on his face So... to add to this conversation... I once bought a conspiracy book, thinking it was a novel. I noticed what it was as soon as I started reading, but I kept reading it as a novel. Got sick of it around chapter three - the book was drenched in frustration. Even so, I thought that if this guy had committed to write an actual fictional novel in its conventional molds, he would have done well. This was a first and last. For the God thing, here is the latest spark the portuguese nobel laureate lit this week: http://www.the-news.net/cgi-bin/google.pl?id=1033-10
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| Sunday, October 25, 2009 - 02:28 am Wheres page 2? I need 2 C page 2!!!!!!!! Or is that it? Dam. I hope I hav'nt just been rick rolled(what ever that is). Its Sat night for F*&$s Sake. I'm gonna have to read it again to see if I'v missed some thing
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| Sunday, October 25, 2009 - 02:45 am no, we needed a break from the mental masturbation. anyway SG probably didn't get it. i bet he's got it on a loop.lol as to the noble laureate--we don't want to take him too serious. he probably got the award for what he's going write. and we come full circle to border c's post. i personally am thinking about proving super string theory. do you think they'll give me the prize?
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| Sunday, October 25, 2009 - 05:00 pm nobel*
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| Sunday, October 25, 2009 - 06:54 pm I bet you'd get a Nobel Prize if your perfected Silly String Theory.
It's really not healthy to watch Rick for that long.
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| Sunday, October 25, 2009 - 07:58 pm Silly parsifal, string theory is old hat, 'M' theory now old boy, what... "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." Richard Feynman, Caltech commencement address, 1974
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| Sunday, October 25, 2009 - 09:27 pm @SG i wish i had invented Silly String. i bet the guy has made a mint. CC-- my head hurts from listening to Rick and you want me to contemplate Feynaman? but i agree with his statement. actually, i'm more into the Holographic Paradigm. all human perception is Holograpically generated. and i'm not on lsd. lol @nix-- did you find page 2. it's definitely better than page 1.
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