| Siva . (Little Upsilon) | Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 04:27 am 
W3C,
I have been, and continue to be keenly interested in what sort of advertisement scheme is being used to promote Simcountry.
Anything I have stumbled across is from years ago and has inaccurate information, and the schemes that people like laguna, myself, and others - such as the reintroduction of a free world, perhaps powered by ads, have never been realized or heard from again.
I would like to ask what is being done to ensure the longevity of this game apart from the continued tweakings of gameplay.
-WildEyes |
| Pink The Zombie (Little Upsilon) | Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 04:29 am
. |
| jason | Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 04:30 am
that's a very good question wild! Tom? |
| Siva . (Little Upsilon) | Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 04:31 am
To follow up,
Any and all games, SC included, that I have ever played I learned about from ads.
Companies like Gameforge promote their games avidly.
I realize W3C is not gameforge, which rakes in revenue by a high volume of mediocre games, and you at W3C are devoted to quality not quantity; however, there ought to be some sort of campaign to ensure the growth of the community.
You have claimed that pageviews, new members, and new payments continue to increase, but this has not translated into anything noticeable on the part of the players who actually form the community.
Perhaps this is another issue, but an overhaul of the community might be welcome as well. Php forums maybe? Anyways... |
| Laguna | Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 10:11 am
I sent Willard an e-mail, about a week ago, to seize the opportunity that the European Elections represent to draft new players.
However, neither they nor I have any knowledge of someone who manages or is responsible for one of the sites monitoring the progress of the campaign.
The fact I am ashamed of you people, when I was once proud, doesn't help. Specifically, doesn't help on what comes to give face, but it motivates a lot to make sure the kind of public that sees interests in these elections are the ones to join.
I will praise the game, but not it's community - it will be more efficient if I just stay quiet about that regard altogether. I will enquire and see what I manage.
Either way, I consider a new advertising campaign eminent. I just hope it's well-directed.
In the meantime, do not forget about the Promoting members program. |
| Zdeněk Pavlovský (Fearless Blue) | Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 11:01 am
***
This message is approved by Freud.
***
Honestly, I cannot recommend this game to anyone I know, because I can only recommend products and services I believe are "good" or in case of MMO have "future".
Advertising is important, however, the so-called word of mouth or viral marketing cannot be discounted. Good products do sell by/through "themselves".
Yes, even if I wont believe it until I will see some data, page-views, new members and payments might continue to increase, but where are all those players nobody knows.
In conclusion, as I have said many times before, there are reasons why the game stagnates, and those reasons are being continuously ignored not only by the GM but also by a good portion of players (mind we talk about less than dozen really..), and there is no doubt in my mind that if those reasons would be addressed the fate of the game so to say could be changed.
Then again and as usual, pointless bickering, because it would take a major shift in the GM policies, attitude and philosophy for threads/ideas like these to have any impact. |
| CraftyCockney (Kebir Blue) | Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 02:41 pm
Z, your present negativity is doing nothing to increase the moral of the SC community, and so the vibe trickles down to new people who may look in to see what SC is all about.
There are many good spirited people here who do try to make for a good game, its just that the 'good' is always getting beaten down by various negatives, such as poor GM/player relations and a few bad spirited actions and words by some players. A bright, competetive, challenging game will grow of its own accord, though of course increased global awareness of its existance helps.
Siva is very astute to ask what is being done other than the pretty interfaces and tweaks, as it doesn't matter how well you decorate the house if the foundations are subsiding. |
| Siva . (Fearless Blue) | Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 04:19 pm
Well the community needs to be larger for a number of reasons, primary being so the game drama can be more fun and less personalized.
A large community can 'absorb' more, as it were.
With regard to the article Tuco posted, there are far too many "scrubs" playing, and players like myself either have to invent conflict or look for other ways to keep occupied.
I honestly don't know if this game would be any good at a high level because not enough people play it at a really high level. My intuition says the high levels will turn out to be more or the same, yet some things in my most recent war showed a bit of promise.
And Laguna, the very fact that you can be "ashamed" of "us people" means there are too few people playing. I could count off the number of active players who have left in my time and then compare it to the ones who have joined and remained active. As great as some of the newer people are, there really is no comparison and perhaps a few stack up, such as Dubthaigh, Ela, and Dac. EO is in the running also if he keeps playing.
However, we've lost (or de-facto in some cases), Ambiorix, Bayar, Scottie, Manny, Enigma, Ameche, Brince, Saber, Vicious, Purity, Veritas, Treasurer, David Walker (?), DGoE, Pink Floyd -
and that's just a sample of the ones who had a forum presence of some kind.
If you recall, there was plenty of healthy conflict... SFO versus NSA... the PPW/PPWU thing. It was fun, but got absorbed by the greater community. But I think even then we had about the minimum required to sustain a "bright, competitive, challenging game."
My recent actions, partially as the result of boredom and a desire to leave the game with a bang (I've found renewed stamina thanks to the players in EO's group who are very bright and could all replace the mentioned players above eventually), were also intended to inspire some life into LU.
SNA failed with its leadership left and the buckled to jason and I's test over Pathetic Sheep. Then Valde failed to do anything over it as well. SNA was attacked and destroyed, but it seems some good as come of it, as a new fed has joined LU and the active SNA people have all joined it. This makes for a stronger and better LU than had SNA been allowed to rot. Granted, it would have been more fun to see a new SNA join together to meet the threat and rise from the ashes.
At this note, I'd like to mention to Houston that I'm sorry for nuking him. I thought more people would care. Apparently, no one did. You can get mad at me (justifiably), or ask what's wrong with the active players on LU that no one cared enough to do anything about it. Times were a mere hostile bid would bring hell's fury on LU.
Valde was going to be next, to see if I could inspire some white knights, but thanks to Kevin and you, Laguna, I had an excuse in the form of defending EO. Btw, really shitty how you guys tried to maneuver with Chuck Steak. Just say you don't like the inactive raiding and declare. Then have a face-off and resolve it. But I couldn't let EO sit out there alone, and besides I had an invasion of VB all planned out anyways. It's actually good for Valde that you guys declared on EO because it pushed my timetable ahead.
Yet no one impressed me and no one impressive emerged. All that happened was Valde lost four countries, EO lost one country, and I used a ton of drones and oa2a up. It was nice to see dub roar, but he declared unprepared, suffered the consequences, and I was in the end disappointed in his reaction to it all.
What probably saved LU was the war engine freezing - for whatever reason, the GMs have no emailed me back about it. Oceanus would have fallen (not too big a feat considering it was 6 on 1), and unless Laguna or Kev came out of WP and actually mounted a response, it would have been on to Sir Michael next who I would have gutted like a fish. Michael: You have been temping and tasty swag for a long time. Buy some defense already. Then Martok: again, buy defense, and so on, until the only players left on LU were the ones in WP. I have maps. Ask EO.
However, it became apparent that there was no one to rise to the occasion, as I took time to reflect during the "break" in the war engine, and that being the case, if Laguna was going to be occupied until July there was no one who would be able to stop me. I find little pleasure in pwning players for the hell of it, and killing LU without a fight is indeed poor form.
I'm not going to pretend like this whole time I've been trying to be the secret savior of the game. I've been trying to raise some hell, but the lack of hell actually raised - because of lack of any real response, speaks to a deep disappointment. You should be more disappointed in the players who sit around watching their corps, counting their sim dollars, and feeling proud that their 1's and 0's are growing in a dutch computer, rather than the few players actually doing something to keep vitality in the game.
I picked the moniker Siva for this because Siva is the hindu god of destruction, but it is the destruction that precedes creation. In some rites, Siva is a sustained god, because through Siva, be destroying, allows things to be created again anew. |
| Pope Samtator IX (Little Upsilon) | Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 06:47 pm
I will praise the community instead Laguna. Its the players that make the game. For all its great possibilities SC is only ones and zeros without the input of players that enjoy and yes love the game.
|
| Kevin Henry (Little Upsilon) | Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 07:11 pm
Wild -
Well, thank you! I think I get it now. See I thought you had destroyed random countries, but really you were helping players "create" things anew.
I thought you and others were attacking innocent econ players like Chuck and Simon, but you were in fact you were "revitalizing" LU.
I thought you were forcing people to play the game the way you wanted them too. But really you were "deep in disappointment."
Well, I have good news for you. You win! I have no interest to continue playing a game with people I feel confident I would never associate with in the real world.
I have already withdrawn from Valde. The rest will follow. Hopefully, with the departure of the non-impressive players, more saviors such as yourself will join and show people how to enjoy the game. |
| Crossdale | Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 08:12 pm
@Kevin, I know how you feel and that you may want to leave the game. Your one of my good friends and I have never known you to be a sore loser. So what if things didn't go your way in the war? Get back up and try again. Just like boxers in the real world when they lose a fight they don't say "oh i quit", they get back in the gym and train harder and learn new ways to do things. We just cannot dictate players like Beast becuase he is also my fedmate/friend so in reality this was just a bad judgement call because people understimated him and thought he was some NOOB. It's just a game Kevin no need to pick up and leave over a lost battle when you have not lost the war.
Crossdale. |
| Kevin Henry (Little Upsilon) | Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 08:40 pm
Thanks Crossdale.
But that's really not the reason.
I remember Sam saying in chat one day that, "Everyone plays the game for different reasons."
Until the recent war, I never realized how many people play the game for the reason of wanting to fight others and destroy countries.
Think of the players that attacked someone without cause. Now, add in all the players that agreed their actions were justified on the LU forum. There were many more voices agreeing with the attacks on active players (claiming its part of the game), than players opposing it. Then, lastly think of all the players that remained silent and simply didn't care or didn't have the time and resources to do anything about it. Clearly, my mindset is a minority, so I don't see any reason to continue putting time into this game.
This is a GAME. It is suppose to be fun. It is cheap, but I do put some money into it once or twice a year. I wouldn't choose to hang out with an apparent majority of LU/SC in the real world, so I would have to be pretty dumb to continue to pay to interact with them.
Obviously, there are exceptions. There are people I'm glad I've had a chance to talk and interact with. But they are simply the exceptions to the rule. This just isn't the right game for me.
Lastly, its not like I'm leaving tomorrow. I have months left on my account. Plenty of time to strip and dereg my countries. This wasn't a quick decision I made upon seeing Wild's post. I was actually planning on leaving quietly. Maybe I should have stuck with that... |
| Zdeněk Pavlovský (Fearless Blue) | Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 09:07 pm
As I have said before CraftyCockney my only obligation is to the "truth".
I believe in what I write. I have never claimed anything else than what I write now, the only difference is that I do not care to be of help any more.
You talk of many, I call it dozen. Who is closer to description of reality everyone is free to decide for her/himself.
Without getting into pointless arguments, despite I am aware of what you seem to imply, your concern is noted, however, being of help is not required, its extra. I believe I have done my share of being helpful, not only in the past few months, but long ago you and basically everyone else arrived on the scene, and what did I get in return? Nothing
No, this is not revenge, this is not being nasty, this is not to damage, this is just no more Mr nice guy. |
| Zdeněk Pavlovský (Fearless Blue) | Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 09:21 pm
Actually now I see I got something
--
May 02 00:51 Received 63 Gold Coins because Enterprise Nonzero on FB was rated 1
--
Declined with 1 CEO and 1 country this month, but this one mysteriously accepted award preventing me from running for country award this month.
Any other objections? |
| Siva . (Little Upsilon) | Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 11:23 pm
Lol, Kevin. If you think that a game were everyone sits on their ass and counts 1's and 0's and fake money is fun, or if that is the game you are hoping to play, then I'm quite glad you don't want to associate with me.
I'll leave it at that.
And anyone who puts too much of their RL persona into a game is doomed to fail. This game is at least 1/2 RPG when it comes down to chips. Maybe that's why so many of you seem so pathetic all the time. Except, ironically, Pathetic Sheep. |
| Princess_Fluffybritches (Little Upsilon) | Sunday, May 3, 2009 - 02:41 am
Ha, not really sure what to make of / reply to this thread, but here goes...
I think a large amount of Simcountry's appeal is it's community, I mean, who really enjoys clicking a million times to destroy little green forts, or grappling with shares and cash limits? Because of this, I have always found the game to be most fun in the lead up to and aftermath of a conflict, as this is when most roleplaying and mock-politics can be done. A few things can ruin this though; a bitter war, strange circumstances (War engine errors, bugs, etc), and when the reasons for the war in the first place are insubstantial. I mean, all that clicking and sitting on my arse for nothing?
Quote:And anyone who puts too much of their RL persona into a game is doomed to fail.
I tend to act in Simcountry in a way that reflects my RL ways, I value friendship, fairness and form, and can go from 'happy-sim' to 'sad-sim' im a very quick space of time. Whether this dooms me to fail depends on the definition of 'failing.' I do not think it is possible for anyone to keep up an online persona that bears no resemblance to themselves as people. Saying people are pathetic is very mean and very naughty in that respect, Wild. :P
People do play this game for many different reasons though, and as boring and inane as they may seem to others, it is no reason to feel justified in starting world wars with uninvolved (or previosuly inactive) players. Admittedly in the past when i have got bored with SC daily life, I engaged in politic intrigue and small wars etc, the UC LDI conflict was good for that, bad-noob crushing too. But none of these activities of mine started something from nothing, and ultimately didnt cause alot of bad relationships in the process.
I've forgotten where i was going with this, but that kind of reflects what has happened to Simcountry really, doesn't it?
The only thing that will revitalise this game is a massive string of positive updates by the GM. Updates that make the game less restrictive, less 'nanny coddling' and get rid of the current 'its so complicated lets make a million annoying auto features to run people's empires for them' attitude. Create features which immerse the user, add more depth and more ideas into it, something to aspire to....
Who cares if someone creates an empire of 40 countries that can dominate an entire continent. Do you think Rafael Nadal watched Federer win 14 (?) singles titles on TV and thought "Ah, maybe i'll play badminton instead."?!?
At the moment, Simcountry is a bit like sex. Whether it be successful war, profit making, or respect earning, the climax and achievement seems disappointing and pale in comparison to the build up. Let's not even get to what the aftermath feels like.. :P
Anywho, back to the 'positive updates' idea. Eventually this will encourage customers with a higher intellectual demographic to stay and attempt to prosper, enriching the community. Some less clever ones will stick it out and plot their little wars and schemes (you know who you are) and naturally they are the ones who the more successful players consume.
Simcountry is a sinking ship at the moment. And i don't have the ability or desire to try and save it. Really, its not in our hands: an old cow bedecked with bells and whistles is still tough meat.
Dub x
P.s. I apologise for the copious amount of analogies contained within this post. |
| Barney Rubble (Little Upsilon) | Sunday, May 3, 2009 - 03:28 am
War, simply put, is now way too fast with too much risk and loss for the player who is dec'd.
A few players with a week to kill on LU could literaly destroy the world. Ill not debate if thats right or wrong but you better believe its true.
Say about 4 players(me, sam, wild and jason) were to time a major offensive during a time when the "management" of the game was other wise busy with vacations and what not.
They would come back to arguably the most important world ruined.
This is a fatal flaw in this game and Im surprised this "ruin the game war" hasnt happened yet in this new engine. There have been some big wars, but what Ive seen during those wars, was the GM's stepping in to cancel decs. happened on GR with a "unable to attack new player" bug and again on LU in this war.
I think the war engine needs to change. I was shocked when attack rounds were removed. That alone turned this game into a haven for aggressive war gamers who could swin in a tank of fat whales.
People with alot of time, some advanced knowledge of tactic and the desire to do so could break this game easy. When ownership's back is turned, WHAM to the world! |
| Alarich (Little Upsilon) | Sunday, May 3, 2009 - 04:37 am
The game without war will not be such great game, just a boring and stupid economic simulation game.
they should create a new world olny for pussys who just wants to play the economic side of the game. |
| Alarich (Little Upsilon) | Sunday, May 3, 2009 - 06:22 am
i would like to apologise for my prior post, i do realize now that the economic aspect of SC is just as important as the war game, i do hope you will understand that the first time i saw this game what i most like was the war side more than the economic side. |
| jason (Little Upsilon) | Sunday, May 3, 2009 - 08:54 am
me too Alarich. but if we all war too much it can drive guys off. |
| Laguna | Sunday, May 3, 2009 - 08:06 pm
I wonder if Christopher Walken has ever done any commentary work?...
Oh, right, Simcountry...
/me looks at his calendar
/me looks at the forum
This isn't lookin...
/me looks at his notes
Much better!
Don't expect things to come out as any of you expect. I wonder how much I can do today. |
| Parsifal (Kebir Blue) | Sunday, May 3, 2009 - 09:06 pm
i'm one of those who enjoys watching 1's and o's accumulate. but i think it's stupid to only focus on the economic game without even developing a modicum of defense, develop alliances, and learn some of the basics of the war game. but the main challenge i like about sc is beating the gm at it's on game. for over 2 1/2 years i've played this game and always found ways to make money in spite of the gm closing loopholes in the game. yes, they've closed many of the holes but there are still a few left, even though they're not as lucrative as in the past. when you find such a loophole you have to exploit it as quickly and as long as it exists. those of us who have done this are sometimes branded as bad guys by some in the game but mostly by the gm. and i suppose that when i can't find any more loopholes, i'll leave too.
the really sad development over the past months is that new players don't have a chance of building a strong military or economic empire without using their plastic. this may be intentional on the part of gm but looking at the KB world it appears that, as others have stated, no new players are coming in to take the place of the vets that are leaving. many of the changes made have supposedly been to give noobs more of a chance of success, but these changes have had just the opposite effect. even though those of us who try to help noobs by helping them take down a lucrative inactive find that the noob still can't make it. they end up amassing large debts that they can't dig out of and then they just fold.
what's wrong with being able to take out a c3 and make 10t from the conquest? that's one of the quickest ways to build an empire, acquire wealth and learn about the game. what's wrong with making gobs of money on cash loans? well, these questions have been beat into the ground and have no place to go. so, enough of that.
in light of the current changes, the tendency is to attack one another. sometimes this is quite justified, but let's remember who the real enemy is here.
Siva, you've made some great observations and suggestions about advertising, but until w3c puts the fun back in the game particularly for new players, the game will continue to languish. |
| Maxwell 'Danger' Powers (Little Upsilon) | Wednesday, May 6, 2009 - 06:59 pm
I would like to see some way of economic countries being able to take over neighbouring countries without war. Beyond simply accumulating the GC's to buyout a nearby C3.
I agree with Parsifal in that I also enjoy the economic side much more than war at this stage (still watching my former C3 grow and grow). |
| Princess_Fluffybritches (Little Upsilon) | Thursday, May 7, 2009 - 04:35 am
Game improvements impresses the parrot. The crack crossword orbits after minty fresh. Our independent schedule conducts game improvements. Minty fresh defeats the flesh near the tricky refund. A human genre malfunctions beneath the ignored jungle. Minty fresh hunts.
That is all. |
