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Friday, January 9, 2009 - 02:17 am  Just in case the JERUSALEM thread gets deleted due to it's lenght. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- nix001 Friday, November 14, 2008 - 01:42 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Does anyone else think that Tel-aviv should be the capital of Israel and Jerusalem should be the capital of humanity? Váli (Fearless Blue) Friday, November 14, 2008 - 02:36 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No! Whats Jerusalem got to do with most of humanity? It's a place of violence not humanity. Old fairy tales are not going to change that. Johanas Bilderburg (Little Upsilon) Friday, November 14, 2008 - 02:50 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well the same could be said for most of Europe... Flanders ring any bells? Váli (Little Upsilon) Friday, November 14, 2008 - 02:52 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A capital of humanity should be built on the moon...no violence there yet.... FarmerBob Friday, November 14, 2008 - 05:29 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My place is humbly offered. Sam, you bring the steaks, I've got the beer. nix001 Friday, November 14, 2008 - 12:02 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Vali. Whats the point in having a capital on the moon? What kind of message would that send..........Apart from peace is not a place on Earth? You can't tell the difference between the Christian quarter and the Muslim quarter, apart from some of the graffiti. Or the difference between the Christian people and the Muslim people. They look the same, dress the same and speak the same. The two peoples live and work in peace with one another. Surley thats an example the world should embrace? Váli (Fearless Blue) Friday, November 14, 2008 - 01:09 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You forgot about the third type of people who dont get along quite so well with one of the afor mentioned poeple. I prefer London, Christiasn, Muslims, Hindus, Atheist, buddists,scientologists, sharmonsists, tree huggers, black, white, yellow, pink, and blue people. Even catholics all getting along quite nicely. A great example for the world to embrace. A few rough edges need to be smoothed but on the whole a fine city. nix001 (Kebir Blue) Friday, November 14, 2008 - 01:34 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A city of vice is'nt quite what I had in mind for the capital of humanity. We shall also see how well they all get along when they have no money. Remember the northern cities? I also think if the Jews wern't so committed to making Jerusalem theirs, they all would get on just fine. John R Friday, November 14, 2008 - 03:05 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shut up, Flanders. Just Spock (Kebir Blue) Friday, November 14, 2008 - 03:20 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- the capital of humanity should be in Las Vegas. Hmm, Vice is in the eyes of beholder. Klarina Espinosa (Kebir Blue) Friday, November 14, 2008 - 03:53 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The capital of Humanity is clearly H. Silly noobs. Travis Goeringer (Kebir Blue) Friday, November 14, 2008 - 05:09 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- doesn't humanity and violence go hand-in-hand? It's the very nature of humans I thought..... ManseEverard (Kebir Blue) Friday, November 14, 2008 - 05:16 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nix- And if the palistinians weren't so committed to making jerusalem theirs, they would all get on just fine. Actually, its a lot more complicated then that. But we'll see a peace agreement in the next 10 years, I think, as both sides are moving towards realization that peace is only possible if they give up something important. Johanas Bilderburg (Little Upsilon) Friday, November 14, 2008 - 05:33 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Those silly Jews. Taking back their homeland with sticks and rocks. Beating up the poor defenseless neighbors who are armed with Soviet tanks, artillery, and aircraft. Creating capitals and such in the city they founded 4000 years ago. The nerve of some people. How dare they survive 60 years of "peaceful co-existence". Váli (Fearless Blue) Friday, November 14, 2008 - 05:52 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nix is on the right track...the new Jerusalem is in the green and pleasant land called England. Maybe London should be renamed New Jerusalem then people wont notice crazy terrorists anymore they will just be part of the normal background noise. nix001 Friday, November 14, 2008 - 07:36 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Klarina. It's time's like this that makes me wish I had spent more time at school. Travis. It is human nature to be violent. That's why we created humanity. Anyway. I just think the world would be a better place if Jerusalem belonged to everyone. Like ManseEverard wrote: 'peace is only possible if they give up something important.' Sam: AKA Johanas. If the Red Indians wanted to take back land that they owned 4000 years ago by force and with help from the Ruskies, would you think that that would be acceptable? Vali. Sorry. I dont know how to get the a with that bit on top of it London was created through the wealth of prostitution. I would have to say that Leicester would be the better city to re-name 'New Jerusalem'. Especially as the minorities now make up the majority, the countryside is beautiful and it's in the centre of England. What more could you ask for? Arkh Mori (Little Upsilon) Friday, November 14, 2008 - 08:53 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alexandria is more a center of humanity than Jerusalem. Klarina Espinosa Friday, November 14, 2008 - 09:14 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The centre of humanity is between the a and the n. As for middle east, let's give the Palestinians nukes too and let them and the Israelis settle this like the mature (ha!) adults that they are. John R (Kebir Blue) Friday, November 14, 2008 - 09:16 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One is technological, the other religious. Both product of men... The capital/centre of humanity is man kind. ManseEverard (Kebir Blue) Friday, November 14, 2008 - 09:23 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- They are both major centers of human civilization, for historical reasons. Jerusalem is far older then Alexandria, though, and far more of what it produced in antiquity survived. In addition, 3 worldwide cultures consider Jerusalem to be an important cultural site, and many members of those cultures make pilgramage there. Alexandria can't make that claim for even one culture. Johanas Bilderburg (Little Upsilon) Friday, November 14, 2008 - 09:34 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Secular Humanism Bah. People are just no damm good. Hairless monkeys as a great philosopher El Tuco once said. If all religion, money, politics, and desire were removed from the world. If every single supposed injustice were corrected. If all the problems were "gone". We would still kill each other in droves. Ideas and inanimate objects don't kill people. We do. Homo Sapiens is a predator. Its genetic. Austia Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 12:28 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homo Sapiens are actuall scavengers. We weren't predators untill we invented the 8mm Mauser with 190 grain Core locked rounds. anyways. Amsterdam should be the capital for Humans. It's already the "Stoners Valhalla". Jerusalem is given too much credit in out society. Time to move on. Johanas Bilderburg (Little Upsilon) Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 12:38 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Our ancestors took down very large game with pointy sticks. Long before the invention of gunpowder. Like all predators they never passed up an easy meal if it presented itself. Much like when your friends order pizza. But we have forward looking eyes, well developed senses of sight and hearing, a large brain capacity for our size, and canines for eating meat. Basic design is predator. Austia (Little Upsilon) Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 01:25 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- well, we have teeth that are common with Herbavores. There fore, we are, in fact omnivores. Plants and animals, thus explaining my point that humans were scavengers. Váli (Fearless Blue) Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 02:35 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Humans are at the top of the food chain, we can eat whatever takes our fancy...if you call that scavenging....thats upto you. Humans are omnivores as we lack the ability to produce all of our required dietary needs so have to consume a varied diet to acquire the needed nutrients. Plus we evolved from monkeys so our eating style was inherited from them. Speaking of evolution until peolpe actually evolve some humanity Nix's capital is still going to have to wait. Johanas Bilderburg (Little Upsilon) Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 03:20 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Omnivores are predators as well. The American Brown Bear also know as the grizzly bear grazes extensively on grass and flowers. He can also take down a full grown elk without much trouble. Diet is more a matter of opportunity. We have had 10,000 years of civilization and evolution. Now instead of sticks we use nuclear weapons. That's not much of an advancement in my opinion. nix001 Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 05:24 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I read what I would call an interesting article in an English paper called The Times about Babylon. Babylon is located in Iraq, and was the cradle of civilization as we know it. It was also where the Jew's went when they left Israel due to a famine. The next bit is disputed, but they either went their by their own will and were made slaves when they arrived, or the people of Babylon made them slaves and took them there. Either way, the Jew's were slaves in Babylon. This is why Rastas use the word Babylon when they are talking about being oppressed by the system. Now, it turns out that not so long ago America and the coalition Forces built a base on the location of the Old City of Babylon, destroying the site, maybe to the point of non-repair. They likened it to driving a tank through stonehenge. So now I'm asking myself why would we do something like that? And I'm thinking it could be one of three reasons. 1) The Jew's run us and returning to destroy what's left of Babylon is a way for them to deal with that part of their past. 2) The system of Babylon runs us and has become so great through us that it has imploded. Destroying whats left of it's physical form in the process. 3) We just dont give a dam what we destroy. I find all three hard to swallow, but I can't think of another reason why we would do such a thing. Any idea's? Váli (Fearless Blue) Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 10:09 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- More importantly nix why would saddam hussein destroy the place long before the americans arrived? The old city was already ruined by Mr Hussin building a recreaction on top of it before the war. Austia (Golden Rainbow) Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 11:24 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who was that that saved the Jews from Babylon. Wasn't it the Persians? I think it was. Aren't they fighting the Persians decendants now? Kinda weird, huh? Just Spock Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 02:10 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- some said it is an evolution trick to prevent inbreeding therefore it is natural siblings do not like each other. John R Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 02:17 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- People chain themselves to the past, but they do not value it. Almohad117 (White Giant) Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 09:29 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This whole topic is a baaad idea... Austia Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 12:00 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree with JohnR. You should learn from your ancestors mistakes, not repeat them. Klarina Espinosa (Kebir Blue) Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 02:43 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The whole situation with Israel is amusing. We have nations which built themselves on the lands of pre-existing cultures, forced through acts of genocide to relocate, lecturing the peoples of the Middle East on opposing the encroachment upon their lands by the so-called "original" peoples of Israel. Hypocrisy knows no bounds. The Zionists of Israel have no more right to the land there than the Palestinians do. Less so given the fact that Palestine was a nation destroyed in order to allow Israel's creation, and the subsequent acts of terrorism against non-millitant targets. Bottom line is that were the Israeli's not mostly Jewish, the West wouldn't stand for such behaviour, let alone openly sponsor it. But hey, that's social guilt for you. When it comes down to it, Israel exists for the one universal truth of human nature. Might makes right, inalienable human rights be damned. nix001 Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 02:45 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is why I think that if Jerusalem could become the capital of humanity, a home land to all idea's and thought's, with a history to match. The world could have a neutral ground to work on, enabling the leaders to come together in equality and teach each other about their own ancestors mistakes, thus making sure we all don't repeat them again. Then hopefuly, they could sit down with alittle bit more respect for each other and sort out the things that are important to life like Global Warming and Famine. nix001 Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 02:52 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I was replying to JR and Austia, but I think it works well with what Klarina's written? Váli (Golden Rainbow) Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 04:21 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What hope is there for humanity..we the players of simcoutry share a bond though our enjoyment of the game but we will not even give poor players a few trillion imaginary dollars. Why then will the rich give to the poor. Humanity does not exsist in this world. We are and always will be waring tribes. The sides may change but the simple fact that there is not enough resources in this world for everyone to share the same standard of living means that we will always be in competition with each other. John R Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 09:51 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm still not certain what you people mean by humanity and what is there to contemplate about it... I was once asked how mankind could consider itself an "intelligent" specie, while we war one another. I replied something of this: One doesn't exclude the other; it is often in war we find some of men's greatest demonstrations of genius and creativity (in the name of survival). If you start seeing what we have done through a moral window and thinking about all we could have done... well, might as well not see or think. Emi Ricol (Golden Rainbow) Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 12:59 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Every nation in Europe, the Americas, Asia, and the Middle East is built on the ruins of defeated prior nations. Cursing the USA for it is fashionable, but a tidy bit of intellectual dishonesty. Ari 1 (Little Upsilon) Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 03:48 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't tell the difference between the Christian quarter and the Muslim quarter, apart from some of the graffiti. Or the difference between the Christian people and the Muslim people" LMAO... Nix, have you ever spent any considerable amount of time in Jerusalem? I have. The Christian, Armenian, and Jewish quarters are all extremely distinct. Just turning one corner you will feel like you are in a different world. Please go to the old city and walk in through the Damascus gate instead of the Jaffa Gate or the Dung Gate. It will be a totally different experience. Do make sure to not wear any signs of religion though, you don't want to be stoned or stabbed. About your Babylon post, man your history is really a weak point. Please learn some history and then come back and post something half intelligent. "1) The Jew's run us and returning to destroy what's left of Babylon is a way for them to deal with that part of their past. " Like I have said before you know nothing about the Jews. How this would ever make sense in your mind I just don't understand. Pluto (Kebir Blue) Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 04:31 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A city of vice is'nt quite what I had in mind for the capital of humanity. ^^^^^^ If your talking about london , your wrong and most likley ignorant tourist Ari 1 (Little Upsilon) Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 04:59 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Less so given the fact that Palestine was a nation destroyed in order to allow Israel's creation" Palestine was a nation? Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire. It has never been a country onto its own. The Ottomans were defeated and the British gained a Mandate to control the area. Even after Israel became a state, the West Bank area was a part of Jordan and Gaza belonged to the Egyptians. They did not seem to feel the Palestinians needed to have their own homeland. Only when it was politically necessary did Jordan ever relinquish its claims on the West Bank, after Israel had already captured it in the 67 war. Perhaps you are referring not to a nation but to the nationality of the inhabitants. Some scholars argue that Palestinian nationality only began emerging after the arrival of Jews in massive numbers. The Palestinian historian Rashid Khalidi puts the date closer to the 1880s and 1890s. It was only at this time when the seeds of national identity started a slow growth in the Palestine territory. It is the eventual growth of the national identity that created calls for a Palestinian state. Yet Palestinian nationalism could not produce a state. It was handicapped by a lack of cohesiveness. Divisions in tribal and familial lines were readily exploited by about every party present. Had the Palestinian nationality been the dominant factor in Palestinian society then, well then there would be a what if statement. The argument for the need for a Palestinian state can be a rather touchy subject for Israel's neighbors. Jordan is 70%-80% Palestinian yet it is ruled by the Hashemites. The Hashemite Kingdom in Jordan had no problem massacring the Palestinians when the Palestinians tried to take over the country. Oddly, I have not heard anyone denounce the Jordanians. The bottom line on the creation of Israel is that almost every country, except Canada, is born though fire and blood. My grandmother lived through Lodz Ghetto and survived the Auschwitz death camp. During which she witnessed the death of her entire extended family except for one brother who was separated from her for over 8 years. My grandfather and two of his sisters were sent to Israel days before the Nazis invaded Poland by his father; who saw the writing on the wall. Once there, my grandfather actually joined the British army and fought for the rest of the war. Feel free to take a look at the book of remembrance for those lost in the Holocaust from his town of Skala, Poland. http://yizkor.nypl.org/index.php?id=2623 The 4 pages of survivors are images 161 to 164. The 44 pages of the dead are images 281 to 324. Out of the ashes of Europe my ancestors realized that no nation would ever respect them unless the Jews had a homeland. My grandmother arrived in Israel in 1946 with only the clothes on her back. She lived in a small town between Tel-Aviv and Jerusalem, closer to Tel-Aviv. At that time she tells me that she could not go farther than a block or two without an escort for fear of Palestinian militants. Yet with perseverance and dedication, a nation was forged against all odds. Zionist may in fact have less of a right to Israel than the Palestinians. That doesn't concern me. My people needed a safe harbor and could expect no hand outs. They took what they had to and believe me I know the Palestinians ended up with the shit side of the stick. About the violence and terrorism. It has been present on both sides since the beginning. There is absolutely no moral superiority. What has happened in Israel since 1967 changed the landscape is disheartening. However, I am not apologetic at all about the creation of the state. nix001 (White Giant) Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 05:05 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ari 1. For 3 weeks I lived in the Old City. I spent my time walking the streets of the Old City at 2am in the morning sticking stickers on lamp posts and those green and grey electrical boxes on my own. As I said. The only difference between the quarters, except for the Jewish quarter (which has been rebuilt to look like something you would expect in a Uni campus), is the graffiti. Before I would set out each night on my mission I would sit in the garden at Damascus Gate having a couple of beers. I walked down every street of the Old City many times. How long did you spend there and what did you do? I hope it was'nt on a kabutz. I know many people who have been on a Kubutz and if it was you would'nt have gone to places that I went to at the times I went as they would have kept you safe. About Babylon. What bit of what I wrote is wrong? The quote you have brought up is a theory on why we did what we did to it in the occupation. Whats your problem? I advise everyone to scroll up and read why I wrote it. Pluto. I wonder if your a Londoner. If so, I can understand you thinking London is something that it's not. Without Vice London would be nothing. Váli Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 05:19 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- London is the greatest city on the face of the planet. Get over jerusalem nix. Its glory is history, now its a dive. London is the present and the future. All of my countries enemies and rivals are my friends in London. nix001 (White Giant) Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 05:20 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As I said Vali. We will see how many remain your friend when the streets go up in flames like they did in the North. They say the only reason why the Midlands and the south did'nt go up in flames a couple of years ago was because we have money. And that if these places end up in the same financial condition as the North, the next time the riots happen, the whole place will go up in flames. Even London. Ari 1 (Little Upsilon) Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 05:36 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I spent 8 weeks of my time in Israel living in Jerusalem. Quite a bit of that was spent living in a hostel right inside the Jaffa gate. I also spent time at the Lev Yerushalayim hotel and more time with a family friend who lives in Jerusalem. I spend a considerable amount of time drinking Arabic coffee in the Muslim quarter, visiting churches and buying fresh pita in the Christian, and studying different theologies in the Jewish quarter. One of my favorite things was walking the cobbled streets of the old city in the early hours of the morning. So perhaps I understand you more. You walked the streets of the old city at 2 AM when the entire Old City would be deserted and all the shops would be closed. Of course things would look similar. However you must have seen when the city is alive that very little is actually similar. You drank beers at the Damascus gate? What time was this at? You are both ballsy and offensive. The Muslims have a prohibition against alcohol. There are no places directly next to the gate to buy beer. You had to go to West Jerusalem, buy beer, and then take them to one of the most prominent places were you shouldn't drink them. There are no Kibbutzim in the old City or in Jerusalem for that matter. They are agricultural communities and are generally not located in cities. There are excepts in Tel-Aviv and Haifa but those have been converted to hotels and schools and most no longer consider them to be a Kibbutz. I also spent 3 weeks living on a Kibbutz at Bet Shemesh. I worked on an archaeological dig there. The head archaeologist was a Jerusalemite who took me on a weekend tour of the Old City. Through his professional eyes I saw that even the architecture in the old city is vastly different throughout. I am curious, what did your stickers say? What was your mission? I will not go into Babylon and Nebuchadnezzar with you. If you want to learn the actual history of the area then take some courses or read a couple good books. I have already written enough long posts today. To say that the Jews would seek revenge after all this time is just about as stupid as when you said that Jews hate themselves for not preventing the killing of Jesus. nix001 (White Giant) Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 05:46 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There was a beer shop on the road outside Damascus Gate which leads to the Garden Tomb. There was also a couple in the Christian quater. My sticker said: GOD WONT RESURRECT THOSE WHO WONT SAVE HIS CREATION MOTHER NATURE Váli (Fearless Blue) Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 05:50 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The north of Jerusalem do you mean? There are very few riots in England. London is much more mixed than northern cities. Reason being there are very few natives in London. There are lots of small gropus of different backgrounds. Northern cities have a more even divide white/asian areas that creates hostility. London is much more mixed. Ari 1 (Little Upsilon) Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 06:00 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I hope that was a rice paper sticker. The road outside the D Gate leads runs from West Jerusalem to East. You may have missed the distinction since there are no signs and no changes in the buildings, only a vastly different population mix. nix001 (White Giant) Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 06:31 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It might as well have been rice paper, for when I would go out the following night they had all been ripped down. Due to all the cameras, gangs and soldiers I would stay in the shadows and stick them waist height. That was up until the last night when I thought F#@& it and stuck them as high as I could reach. The beer shop was off that road. It's nearly opposite to the D Gate. I've found my map. The roads called: DEREKH SHKHEM and the beer shop/food shop was about 50 paces from the road your talking about. Trust, even during the last week I would think I knew where I was and it would turn out that I was on the opposite side of the city. Vali. Quote: 'All of my countries enemies and rivals are my friends in London'. I hope our problems wont ruin your friendships. Anyways. I have to go and play football now, so I'll catch you all laters. Peace&Hardcore............Nix001 MNA Ari 1 Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 07:07 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Either I missed the Garden Tomb reference or you edited after I started typing. I never actually visited it. I don't really understand the infatuation with the whole golgotha mountain thing. Anyway, I imagine the road you are talking about is one that is on the dividing line in the city and therefore has a more mixed population. Jerusalem is a very confusing city, after many years of visiting I still see new things every time I go. nix001 Monday, November 17, 2008 - 03:12 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Garden Tomb is a beautiful place. Next time you go you should visit it. To those of you that don't know, the Garden Tomb on Golgotha mountain is where Jesus is said to have been laid to rest after being sacrificed. Though some still maintain that the true sacrificial and resting place of Jesus is where The Church Of The Holy Sepulcher is situated. Another beautiful place that you should visit when in the Old City. Klarina Espinosa (Kebir Blue) Monday, November 17, 2008 - 03:33 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Yet with perseverance and dedication, a nation was forged against all odds. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Indiscriminate onslaughts against Palestinian civilians and militants, and the continued oppression of their basic human rights. Some nation that was forged there. Not a week goes by that you don't hear about it in the news. Israel is one of the worst human rights violators in the world. The only reason they get away with it is because the world feels they owe them something because of the Holocaust. Well, we're in the middle of another genocidal war. But it would seem the boot is on the other foot this time. nix001 Monday, November 17, 2008 - 03:42 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not to mention the amount of UN resolutions that they choose to violate. This is why Jersualem should be the capital of humanity and not the capital of the Jews. Ari 1 Monday, November 17, 2008 - 04:20 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nix, if you read the UN resolutions carefully you will realize that the only reason they were passed is because the US put in language that was vague and allowed for multiple interpretations. The other issue with them is that Israelis do not fully consider the UN to be a viable international body. For one thing, the UN is primarily third world nations that are not democracies. Would you put your sovereignty and lives in the hands of a group that constantly calls for your death and destruction? Do you think that Israel would bow to the countries behind Khartoum? Another issue is that the UN has repeatedly abandoned Israel when they were tasked with keeping the peace. Why should Israel bend its will to a group that strengthens its enemies while weakening Israel's own positions? Consider the UNEF force in Sinai. Ari 1 Monday, November 17, 2008 - 04:48 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Klarina, do you really trust the news to tell you the full story, including all the history? If so, you are naive. Do you every hear about the almost daily attacks from the Palestinians? The thousands of rockets? The stabbings? The bombings? The rampages? The stonings? No, you hear about a wall that is called a land grab. You don't hear about the massive reduction in attacks since it was put up. You hear about a house being demolished, not the former resident who blew himself up on a bus full of children. You probably saw the devastation in Lebanon, but did you ever think about what you would want if your neighborhood was exploding and your friends kidnapped along an internationally recognized border? Have you ever lived in a country that psychologically feels like it is at war every second for 60 years? I can't begin to tell you how weird it feels to ride a bus in a country where buses are being blown up weekly. Yet buses are the only way for the vast majority to get around. I agree there are some messed up things going on in Israel. There has been a refusal to repeat the Atlalena and bring in rogue members of the state. This has led to a precipitous state of affairs in internal Israeli politics and has hurt the ability of the government to make peace. Gaza, on the other hand, has become Israels worst quagmire. The Hamas government vows it will never give up its desire to completely destroy Israel. Hamas only says they will make peace for a dozen or more years while they rearm to have another go at attacking Israel. Who could negotiate with those who wish you dead and only lack the means to do it? The Israeli response however is clearly not working. No matter how bad its people hurt, Hamas does not seem to care and thus the tactic of blockading Gaza will not work. Yet if Israel ends the blockade then it will only give Hamas the opportunity to bring in bigger more effective weapons. We have already seen this once when Hamas upgrading the qassams that hit Sderot with Iranian designed upgrades that reach Ashkelon. By the way, did you know Israel could get a US made system that could stop the rockets in mid air? The reason why they are not deployed is because there is a reasonable chance that some of the projectiles fired at the missiles would land in Gaza and could hurt someone. Real indiscriminate. Anyway, the point I am trying to get at is that you are in no position to judge when you do not look at both sides of the issues. The situation in the region is much much more complex than Israel is the big bully. Oh, and trust me, the world has on many circumstances shown that it will not help Israel. Only Germany truely remains a stead fast ally due to the Holocaust. The US support is mainly a result of the right wing evangelical movement. They send the most money to Israel and they are some of the biggest campaigners for Israel. I wonder if you ever read about that in the newspapers you read? Johanas Bilderburg (Little Upsilon) Monday, November 17, 2008 - 05:21 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The UN is perhaps the greatest waste of premium real estate on the planet. Not to mention the trillions of dollars, euros, yen, pounds, shekels, ect they have wasted without any results to show for it. Its an Anti-American/Anti-Israel bash fest at our considerable expense. Well lets cut the expense. I think we could find a lot of uses for the extra billions we spend on funding our enemies soapbox. 30 days notice to vacate or just surprise them with moving vans? nix001 (Kebir Blue) Monday, November 17, 2008 - 05:32 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Before the Zionist's took over Israel and land grabbed there was little in the way of resistance by the Palestinians as there was an agreement by the Muslim world and Britain to include Jews into the population of Palestine. It all went tits up when the Zionists turned up after the Holocaust. It's the Zionist's I have a problem with and I apologize for putting the Jew's and the Zionist's into the same boat. If the Jew's can control the Zionist's, remove the settlements and the wall, re-unite Gazza and the West Bank and get rid of their Nukes, peace would follow soon afterwards. If they continue to let the Zionists rule, then they should expect what they get. Sam. Those who are wrong deserve to be bashed. If the UN was given the respect that it deserves it would get alot more done. It's people like you who try to belittle it that creates the situation where it finds it hard to become a force for good. Shame on you Sam. Klarina Espinosa (Kebir Blue) Monday, November 17, 2008 - 08:38 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Klarina, do you really trust the news to tell you the full story, including all the history? If so, you are naive. Do you every hear about the almost daily attacks from the Palestinians? The thousands of rockets? The stabbings? The bombings? The rampages? The stonings? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, actually, I do. But then, the BBC is world renound for being less than biased in such things. Your argument defers from the point entirely, valid as it may be in your eyes. I'm well aware of what the Palestinian militias do in terms of attack. But that is beside the point, given I'm talking about not just these vile murderers, but also innocent Palestinian civilians who are often deliberately punished for such attacks by decree of the Israeli government. What disgusts me is the indiscriminate retaliation against these civilians. The oppression of all Palestinians because of what a few have done. Not all of them are terrorists, but they are all made to suffer in the name of retaliation thinly veiled as "justice." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Have you ever lived in a country that psychologically feels like it is at war every second for 60 years? I can't begin to tell you how weird it feels to ride a bus in a country where buses are being blown up weekly. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, I have. And I still do. The country I live in has existed under the near-constant threat of IRA attack for the best part of the 20th century. Bombs and guns, my friend. Israel and Palestine could learn a thing or two from such progress, if only one were willing to stop killing the other. But, alas, it seems both have a fondness for the race-hatred they hold for oneanother. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Who could negotiate with those who wish you dead and only lack the means to do it? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I refer you back to the IRA. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: By the way, did you know Israel could get a US made system that could stop the rockets in mid air? The reason why they are not deployed is because there is a reasonable chance that some of the projectiles fired at the missiles would land in Gaza and could hurt someone. Real indiscriminate. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/sep/06/israel Even the Israeli soldiers admit to the indiscriminate killings. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4022411.stm They even target non-Palestinians. Note the account of indiscriminate shootings. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israeli-dart-shells-kill-family-of-palestinians-641391.html Note, "The flechettes are designed to kill and maim armed men on the ground. You only have to examine their effect on a tree - they can scythe clean through an inch-thick branch - to appreciate their deadliness. But late on Wednesday night - not for the first time in this 23-month conflict - they were used by Israel against Palestinian civilians to fatal and indiscriminate effect." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5215366.stm Killing UN observers. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7722948.stm The deliberate blockading of food aid to Palestinain civilians. In the eyes of International Law, this and other Israeli actions violate Articles 2, 3, 5, 7, 8, 9, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 20, 21, 22, 25, 28 and 30 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights at the very least. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/bbc-staff-are-told-not-to-call-israeli-killings-assassination-664485.html And Israel seems to feel strongly enough about it to try and censor the BBC. Need I go on? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Anyway, the point I am trying to get at is that you are in no position to judge when you do not look at both sides of the issues. The situation in the region is much much more complex than Israel is the big bully. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh, but I am in the position to judge. I have looked at both sides of the argument, and I'm well aware of how complex the issue is. Israel has every right to defend it's borders. What it doesn't have the right to do - and what it has continually done since it's inception - is to encroach on the land of the Palestinian civilians, to steal what land was left to them after Israel's original borders were set out. Israel doesn't have the right to deny these people their human rights, regardless of what some of them may have done. No right to deny them food, water, electricity, security. Israel does all of these things. Israel's problems are caused, in part, by it's own refusal to remain inside the borders allotted to it when it was created. It's continued refusal to do anything that isn't entirely to it's own advantage. Israel will never have peace because it is entirely unwilling to compromise. I seem to recall another nation which did very much the same once, with little regard for the wellbeing of some of the peoples it enveloped as a result. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: I wonder if you ever read about that in the newspapers you read? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who mentioned just newspapers? I'm talking BBC reports, UN reports, Amnesty reports, EU reports. Information which has, in the past, given the story from many different viewpoints. No, I do not base my thoughts upon the ramblings of one or two newspaper reporters. I base it on the reports of international governments, sound media sources, international human rights capmaigns, independant inquiries. I wouldn't deny Israel the right to defend itself. Nor would I deny the Palestinians the right to do the same. What gives Israel the right to deny even the innocent Palestinians their basic human dignities and rights, and then claim to be the sole victim in all of this? Johanas Bilderburg (Little Upsilon) Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 02:58 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The UN gets all the respect it deserves. Its a waste of time and resources. Both would be put to much better use elsewhere. We can have votes to end trade boycotts as a "civil rights infringment". We can hold international summits to condemn Israel. We can listen to crackpots denounce America from New York City. But the people in Sudan have been dying for years and nothing is done. Good job world body! Way to have priorities. nix001 Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 04:58 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sam. We could talk alot more about the role of the UN, but as I want to keep this thread about Jersusalem I'll look for a thread about the UN or start another one. I'll see you there. nix001 Wednesday, December 3, 2008 - 07:59 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok then. From the thread about the United Nations it seems like most of you concider the United Nations to be a waste of space. If that is true then that would explain why entire families of Palistinians are getting wiped out. There is no-one willing to act on their behalf. But what about the Christians of Jerusalem? They don't deserve this war. Why should they be made to suffer in their own land? Why is America also vetoing resolutions that the UN create to help all the children of Jerusalem live in peace? If Jerusalem became the capital of humanity then all would be happy. Every nation would pay for it's up keep and every nation would meet there to deal with issues of humanity. But I bet America's lobbyists would veto that idea as well. nix001 Wednesday, December 3, 2008 - 08:49 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And if the American lobbyists don't manage to veto it, we could call it our Human United Mandate Analyzation Nook. Váli (Fearless Blue) Wednesday, December 3, 2008 - 11:53 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerusalem has too many religious connections to be a capitpal of humanity. It would suggest abramamic religions to be more important than others. There are 4 billion people in this world who dont think jerusalem is very special. I suggest a new city be built and named 'Vali's town. nix001 (Fearless Blue) Thursday, December 4, 2008 - 02:34 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where would you build it? It need's to be in a neutral land where leaders can realize what it means to sacrifice for the greater good. Stuart Taylor (Little Upsilon) Thursday, December 4, 2008 - 03:10 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name it Stuarton and build it in the antartic. Austia (Golden Rainbow) Thursday, December 4, 2008 - 12:57 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Historically, Jerusalem and several other cities could qualify. The fact is, however, is that it would create a unified global perspective. That cannot happen if the rich are to remain rich. War is how they keep us distracted. Every war is surrounded by billions of dollars in business deals. The poor suffer and so forth. A unified Planet means no more war. That means we take a look inward instead of outward. BorderC (Fearless Blue) Thursday, December 4, 2008 - 03:49 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- . FarmerBob Thursday, December 4, 2008 - 07:02 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No Austia. A unified planet means wars will be fought for control of the planet's government. Read more history. nix001 Friday, December 5, 2008 - 03:59 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- War is not the issue for humanity, for we will always kill each other regardless... The issues for humanity are Drugs (legal and illegal), Space travel, Global Warming, Water & Food, HIV and Population. All each country would need to do would be to send an expert of a chosen problem to Jerusalem(the only place on earth that no-one owns, thus making it neutral ground) to work out possible solutions to that problem. Then once they agree on a short list of solutions they would vote on it. The winning solution would then be made public. Any leader of a country that decides not to take part in the solution to the problem would be publicly named and shamed, which would have it's own concequences on the international and national stage. Same would go for any leader that chose not to send an expert. You see, every countries leadership would still be an independent entity as they are today. For the issues of relevance are about the big picture. The solutions would have little impact on the day to day running of any country as they would take time to implement. And due to every country implementing them, no-one would be at a disadvantage. Unlike with what happened with the Kyoto accord. @#&%"£! ?^~£$ There would also be no need to try and over throw it for it's only power would be the power of knowledge and solutions. United to be Individual to see Nix001 MNA Alexander Platypus (Little Upsilon) Sunday, December 7, 2008 - 11:50 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- i think that its simply outrageous to try to make jerusalem the capital of a jewish country. clearly thats like poking all 1.1 billion muslims in the planet with a stick in the eye. why would you want to do that? its just not needed... Váli (Fearless Blue) Monday, December 8, 2008 - 04:29 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alexander, Jerusalem is a holy city in Islam. It is the place mohammed ascended to heaven. I am sure the muslims would not be too offended. I am surte the billion hindus would however be offeneded. nix001 Thursday, December 25, 2008 - 05:19 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My thoughts and prayers go out to the Children of Jerusalem and Bethlehem. Happy Christmas. Darke Katt Thursday, December 25, 2008 - 05:24 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oi Saturnalia! Benj0983 (Golden Rainbow) Sunday, December 28, 2008 - 07:52 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- if there is going to be a capital of humanity, it should be jerusalem. just think about it. it was a major site since Jesus was there, the romans burned down the second temple and ransacked the place. but the jews rebuilt it. that of las vegas should be the capital of humanity. Alexander Platypus (Little Upsilon) Sunday, December 28, 2008 - 09:57 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- i guess the current capital of humanity is london, it seems like it anyways either that or maybe shanghai jerusalem does have a good central location geographically FarmerBob (Little Upsilon) Monday, December 29, 2008 - 01:44 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Las Vegas would be best. Why? A Capital means a place where politicians congregate, and what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. General Dirt Monday, December 29, 2008 - 05:39 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I say we make Rogue River, Oregon the capital of humanity. Small town, about 2000 people. Everyone will bitch and moan about any other selection.
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| Friday, January 9, 2009 - 02:58 pm I'm particularly digging my own addition to this topic. "BorderC (Fearless Blue) Thursday, December 4, 2008 - 03:49 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- . " A period/decimal point says much with great brevity. "Brevity is the soul of wit." -- William Shakespeare
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| Friday, January 9, 2009 - 04:30 pm I prepose the building of a new city in africa. Placed in the region most likely to have been where humans first evolved.
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| Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 01:14 am i like that idea Vali. i believe it would be ethiopia? or maybe where civilization/writing first started, which would be in iraq i think.
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| Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 03:29 am Don't you think it should be where the ultimate sacrfice for humanity took place?
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| Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 03:57 am ultimate sacrifice?
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| Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 04:42 am You know, that guy,,,,Now what was his name?,,,,,,that died for the sake of humanity,,,,,,You know,,,,,,,that guy that was trying to teach us how to be humaine,,,,,,,,,Whats his name?,,,,,,,,,Some people call him the son of god, others call him just a man,,,,,,,,,,Errrrm,,,,,,,,,Kri,,Cry?, or was it Geees? Dam. I'll have to get back to you on that one.
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| Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 11:46 am um...Why do we even need a capital. hmm...how about...Earth. That seems like a good capital for humanity.
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| Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 01:27 pm hahaha nix. I didnt know there were any christians left in britain! I thought we were talking about a capital for humanity, not a capital for christianity. There are 5 billion people in this world who would not too kindly to that idead of yours.
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| Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 05:39 pm Did I say anything about christianity? Who on this earth does not repect his actions? No Poo  (sorry dood but I think I'm gonna be calling you Poo(as in Poo Bear )from now on if you don't mind) I think we need a place where the world could have a neutral ground to work on, enabling the leaders to come together in equality and teach each other about their own ancestors mistakes, thus making sure we all don't repeat them again. Then hopefuly, they could sit down with alittle bit more respect for each other and sort out the things that are important to life like Global Warming and Famine. Maybe the UN and other aid organizations could also set up base there.
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| Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 05:42 pm Build a new city under the Atlantic Ocean and call it Rapture.
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| Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 06:30 pm nix, the UN IS neutral ground for all the world's leaders to come together in equality etc.
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| Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 06:33 pm The UN is in the USA which vetoes alot and seems to have no respect for the UN. I'm thinking thats not on neutral ground  I'm also thinking Jerusalem is owned by no-one, so why don't we all claim it as the Capital of Humanity?
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| Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 06:43 pm No. My idea is better. A big art deco style city under the Atlantic ocean called Rapture.....
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| Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 07:06 pm nix, the land the UN is on is considered international territory and is not territory of the United States. And in all fairness, Russia has used a lot more vetoes than the US has :P http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/data/vetotab.htm Anyway, my point was is that just because you give it a new name and put it in a new spot doesn't mean it won't devolve to bickering over national pride and the welfare of pawns in the global game of politics
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| Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 07:10 pm I don't think it should be in Russia either. Until it's on truely neutral land I don't think any country will respect it. It might even be the cause of this national pride. You must always repect your host. Yes?
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| Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 08:45 pm As I said - under the Atlantic Ocean! Or more realistically, The arctic is truely neutral, as are parts of Antartica. Apart from that, I don't think anywhere is. So perhaps it should be in one of those places.....
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| Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 11:15 pm RIP GAZA
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| Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 08:19 am Build a new city in The Antarctic and call it Atlantis. A city for humanity on a continent that not one country owns - a true city of peace. Well...its better than the moon idea!
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| Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 08:29 am Jerusalem as capital of Humanity? Its definetly not neutral land... How about Mecca? Strassburg is an example of a city torn in dispute, claims and wars that became a european capital-of-sorts.
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| Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 09:25 am New York Baby!!!!
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| Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 03:32 pm don't we have a capital for humanity? Its call earth. why we think so small in this matter. if were not alone then earth is our capital in a huge universe we live in. I'd rather not live on the moon, nor under the sea. Its a little too cold and many storms in the Antarctic. a floating city could work but it faces many issue in it self. I just agree there is not any neutral area to do such a project, yet I fear it will be done one day in the wrong ways. New York LOL, might be diverse, but it would cause more issues then goods.
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| Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 10:51 pm A golden city on a hill thought king Author did that once. You create a target even it is for good some one will knock it down.
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| Friday, August 15, 2014 - 07:10 am Stuart We have that utopia for you. Have a look at your supplies before you.
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| Friday, August 15, 2014 - 07:51 pm Bloody hell...how old is this thread? Joanna, i posted the comment about Rapture on my old account in 2009!
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| Wednesday, August 20, 2014 - 05:10 am Lonestar, Our Headquarters group would like a word with you about Percieval Goods The franky vally, Location, on Shoots, aybe Therapy and Fraud will be brought around, then ola Ohh here she comes:
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| Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 08:35 am religion is war
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